Dude, that is hilarious. Best speculation piece of the offseason, maybe already the golden globe for 2023.

LMAO....One of your finest comments ever on CHTV...Thanks Brad, great stuff!

You win all the style points for today, Brad.

Well done. If it wasn’t so close to the truth I might be able to really laugh.

"....southpaws always seem a little sinister to me. "

Chemists who know their chirality know this one!

Well done. I rate it right up there with my first cup of coffee this morning.

Brad,
That is friggin hilarious my man! Thumbs up and if I could give you more I would.

"That RAS is no joke. His tape is littered with acrobatic, athletic adjustments to the ball for receptions."

This TEAM is littered with RAS players too...Lets hope ALL of them are football players and not just great athletes. Personally I think Gute has done a pretty good job of finding both... Guys who are BOTH great athletes AND football players.

"Punting competition. Fortunately the money saving option also looks like the better player to roll with for 2023. If Whelan keeps performing this well it is a no brainer."

Reports were saying the vet was way better pinning them inside the 10, however.

Let camp roll! I love it!

If Zach Tom weighs #319 as someone here says that adds to the case for having him at C. The two new additions don't move the needle this year?

The two new WRs: most have been focused on immediate production, but a tough big bodied WR who doesn't make an appearance til the season's half over could be a brilliant move. Worst thing that could happen to JL10 (assuming our O line is solid) is if opponents figure out what's coming. Having a different WR run the same plays isn't much of a surprise, but creating plays specifically for Miller's ability and using them sparingly in just the right situation could make a huge difference late season and in playoff games.

"Zach Tom will be our starting Center for years."

I have a suspicion that if he's a quality OT, he'll be playing OT eventually even if he plays center in 2023.

"Up-downs. DEFENSE!!! It’s ok to believe it now. "

Wasn't the defense ahead of the offense and getting everyone's hopes up at this point last year, too? Tell Mulder and Scully that I wanna believe, but I want to still be believing in week 20.

" Fortunately the money saving option also looks like the better player to roll with for 2023. If Whelan keeps performing this well it is a no brainer."

Is Whelan a plus holder? Remember that they might save some $$ on O'Donnell's contract, but they've still got to pay Whelan. The savings really do turn out to be minimal.

2010 was pretty good BM...Just saying...Hey buddy, good to hear from you again!

Bearmeat!!! ALL OF IT is SWITCHED ON this season. All of it. This is going to be beautiful to watch.

The defense has the juice to be really good but I'm still skeptical about Barry's scheme. Did he learn anything from last year? If he plays it soft like last year then he is missing the opportunity to take advantage of what they are best at.....good, hard , in your face, aggressive defense.

They just brought in another Center. If he doesn't pan out, they could move Tom there or leave Tom at one of the OT spots with Yosh, when Bakh is out. I think Elgton Jenkins could see more time at Center. He was pretty solid there when he played there. I also agree on Creed Humphrey. A definite miss by the Packers. Carlson is beginning to scare me. I have not seen him kick, yet, but reports of him being inconsistent, in camp, are not good for the old ticker. We will need him, or another K, to be very consistent in the regular season.

The scary part here is Creed is entering his third season; likely his best hasn't been seen yet. While missing a pick doesn't surprise me I do wonder if the non-idiot team President had a say in it, if Gutey acquiesced to Malibu Barbie as suggested in comments here, or if that was 100% a Gutey move. That's only one aspect of the problems caused by blurred organizational roles.

Wyatt and Walker could still be a force ...

Carlson missed two out of 8 that I saw Tuesday. Those misses were close, and nearly all of them looked like they'd go for 150 yards; kicking OVER the uprights on many, including the first. I'm not sure if accuracy would improve if he didn't blast them so hard, if he should switch to punter, or what.

Whelan held for O'Donnell Monday. I can't say how well he did but I didn't see him cause problems. There was one blocked punt while he was holding, I don't know what led to it. He shanked two out of 9 that I saw. Caught a high snap and sent it for 50. I'd say he's got talent to develop but isn't threatening O'Donnell's job yet.

I see the Packers being very competitive this year with a winning record, but at the end of the day they are young & building for the future. If the punter and kicker are young & inexperienced coupled with 'immense talent' requiring the full 2023 season to get them to become excellent kickers than they should stay. Similar to the WR's and TE's we have this year. You can have older kicker veterans because they may be marginally better but next year when all the youth on the team is experienced and ready to rock & roll we do not want to start all over with rookie and inexperienced kickers. Gutey if he sees the talent and long-term advantage coinciding with a young talented team should not hesitate going with these young kickers in 2023.

OK...

...and THAT folks is the mentality that makes some teams perennial losers.

Sorry LH, but the stubborn, you were my draft pick, you played the most snaps last season, performance doesn't matter mentality is just plain wrong.

I am a big meritocracy guy, I sure thought that a football team should be a case study in why a meritocracy brings out the best...

That, my friend, is a strange hill to die on. Pick another.

Myers played 6 games as a rookie and was mediocre, he then sucked all of 2022, and isn't looking good so far this year. He is THE weak spot in our starting line. If he's our starter, we're in trouble.

Sounds like you have a Prenup with Myers.

I hope they're not only entertaining competition for C, but actively fostering it. If nobody can even rival him for the spot? Hopefully coaches all evaluate that correctly. I think the concern is he might be the biggest weakness on the line, which would be a nice problem to have in a very odd sort of way.

Before OTAs the consensus here was that last year's final 5 were this year's starters and Tom was first off the bench to substitute at any position. Now some here claim Tom's a starter, the only question is if it's at C or RT.

After the first day with full pads.

I understand the excitement, and even the anxiety. Our coaching staff needs to manage that better...

From what I saw at two practices Whelan is NOT currently challenging O'Donnell for starter. Both have huge legs, but O'Donnell's more consistent. Oddly, Carlson might be the best punter of the three. His leg is just insanely HUGE! As consistent, but not so accurate at FGs.

You should hold auditions. 😉

AC/DC would like a word ...

Have my thumbs-up, RR. I totally agree that Myers/Humphrey complaints should consigned to the “Beating a Dead Horse” file, along with King/Watt and so many others. We know, already — it was a bad choice, every GM makes them occasionally, move on.

Great to hear, TGR! I bet you had a stellar time watching all of that yesterday. My wife & I are popping up for practice on the 17th. Hope to see you then if you can swing it!

Moving forward in all of the positional battles I think cap dollars, no meter how small, could weigh into their decisions on the 53 more than in years past. It all adds up.

They’re not too likely to take many chances, but, some might surprise.

TGR, I called 2 as shanks from #41 yesterday. Yes he had some absolute bombs including one that went for 70 yards (!) but he was inconsistent compared to 16 Monday. Unless his shorter punts were directed to be short? An interesting difference is #16's distance dropped off more in his final reps with 16's final three going for 50, 50 & 45, vs # 41 at 60, 50 & 48.

Hopefully we don't have to punt 10 x in one game for this to matter.

Also interesting is Carlson consistently put spirals through the uprights during uncontested drills. Maybe there's the thought that this technique is more accurate? Again most of these went insanely high.

Good to hear that there have been some Sean Ryan sightings. He was mentioned by somebody else as well. He's got the Josh Sitton build AND the Josh Sitton hair.

I'm not concerned about Anders Carlson yet either, although I still think it was unwise to not bring in another kicker to compete with him. I think competition would give him a good kind of pressure, rather than the weird pressure of already being the Green Bay Packers kicker.

From what I've heard, Daniel Whelan's punting skills are better than O'Donnell's, at least in terms of distance. If the holding is good, keep him.

Valentine is intriguing, and I like your idea of trying him in the slot.

"No signs that Whelan is worse at holding."

That's a hell of a way to put it. Sounds like a line in a lawyer's closing argument! There is plenty of evidence that O'Donnell has the reputation of being one of the better holders in the NFL, and it sure looked like he did a fine job last year handling some errant snaps. That's is why the old long snapper, despite draft status, got the boot and we have two new long snappers competing for that job.

What is the evidence for Whelan's holding? I actually have no idea, not having read a word about that aspect of his game, and I couldn't see who was holding at Tuesday's practice. I gather there was one high snap on a 52 yard attempt, but Demovsky and Herman disagreed whether that attempt was made and I don't know who was doing the holding. I was sitting on the north end so I didn't have a good view to see snaps or judge the distance of many of those attempts. I saw a number of misses, but I wasn't keeping count. The roundup tweets suggest either 2 or 3, but it was at a minimum 3 misses, IIRC.

"I was there yesterday. All of Carlson's misses were NEAR-misses. I'll give him plenty of rope. His leg is huge."

Okay, so they're working with Anders on that whole between the uprights thing. I'll breathe. Continue to try to medicate my Booth Lusteg flashbacks. This is fine.

PEO,

"I was there yesterday. All of Carlson's misses were NEAR-misses. I'll give him plenty of rope. His leg is huge."

I was there yesterday and Monday and this is what I saw too.

"Punter: Age 32 vs. 24. Same punting skills. No signs that Whelan is worse at holding."

#16 kicked Monday. I'd say #41 is less consistent so far, but certainly has ability. And maybe more than O'Donnell.

"Melton got open deep more than any other player."

He's our fastest WR based on official time. If you count #9's unofficial 4.28 timed by the Packers, that's a significant upgrade but should be compared to the similar measurement across the board. I'm pulling for Bo Melton! But only want him on the roster if he EARNS it.

Reed caught a LOT of kicks. Yes he looks good, like "wow" good. His 40 is also 4.3x (4.38?) I'd love to see the occasional play where all 4 of our 4.3x burners run routes; what opponent can cover THAT?!? And if they do, blip it out to Musgrave lol. I'm thinking MLF can scheme guys open. Of course I said that last pre-season, too.

Man are we loaded with raw potential!! I'm basically praying for our coaching staff not to screw this up, it could well be a decade of dominance.

Good to hear that out of Rhyan! I didn't get a good view of him either day.

McDonald was our lightest TE, I think they cleared space to bring in two Centers. I was sad to see Filiaga released purely based on paper; 6'6" 321# sounds like a mauler to me but I never got to see him do anything. I have to trust they made the right call. (I'm anxious they did not, but ...)

I'm also thinking Mercedes Lewis' role can be filled by ... get this ... an actual O lineman. Although #49 Allen at #253 and 85 Kraft at #259 are the likely TEs for that purpose.

Both #49 and #44 Pearson seem like likely candidates to run the ball to me, but I didn't see either used that way even in drills.

PEO,
Great insight! Thanks

Our best 5 linemen is a valid strategy, I just don’t think we’ve been very adept at it since the infamous change it all up decision going into the Championship game.

No, you are not alone. Runyon has never been more than barely adequate in the run game. That too needs to improve. He had a down year in the passing game last year for him, but unlike Myers, he has at least been good not just OK in the pass game over his career. That center right was a weakness teams were keying on later last year (once the right side settled generally mid season), notably in red zone situations.

If I can only fix one, I’d fix C. It’s the second or third most important position on the line traditionally and the fastest route to the backfield. Tom can only play in one spot. Outside of Tom we’ve yet to see a player emerge seriously. Perhaps Rhyan will. Perhaps Newman finally gets the mental side. We need one to do so and to push Runyon.

I think they really want a Lazard-type on the roster: DuBose, Miller, Heath, Bonds, even Wicks, all fit that heavy, good-blocker, contested-catch, average speed type.

HUGE!!!

Especially so when you consider there are some bubble positions where we might wish to keep an extra player. Getting a WR who can carry out some important TE blocking assignments is pretty much a 2 for 1.

Might allow us to keep 6 OLB, or 10 OL, or 6 CBs... 6 Safeties... etc.

Tariq Carpenter is another one of those players, developing as a hybrid ILB/S... possibly opening up another position for Goodson? Nichols III? The possibilities are endless for those multi-positional players in helping shape out a roster.

CW, #16 Miller is not the heir apparent to Megatron but could be an upgrade from Lazard? 6'5" was a nice advantage anywhere on the perimeter but that didn't get used last year and AR12's pinpoint accuracy to do so was AWOL anyway. #16 is "only" 6'3" but could prove difficult to cover, and even harder to bring down. Musgrave is surprisingly brought down on first contact.

I'm all in favor of YAC machines!

Are you 'Joshing" us?

TK, surely there's a "kicker whisperer" somewhere, even if it's not Rich Bisaccia. I don't know if Carlson's worked with a specialist? This would be a good time for it.

I don't think players can overcome bad coaching. Hopefully Barry doesn't do actually bad coaching of this loaded-with-talent defense, or if he tries he's stopped by other staff, RB or otherwise.

I want to see this defense violently disrupt the opponent's backfield, and I'm not sure JB even thinks in those terms. We could rush 6, have Carpenter held back for run-stop, and still have 4 in coverage. I can foresee situations where that could be very effective ...

Yes, our D was often cited as being so good that it explained the offensive struggles. Then we saw that it was the offense that made an average D look all world.

Last year the O was a veteran heavy unit plus Doubs at this point. This year it’s very inexperienced. Yes, the OL is healthier, but we should expect it to struggle as a result with so few games among the skill player groups. Improvement will reflect the inevitable learning curve for rookies and second year guys winning roles or expanding theirs. There is no substitute for experience in real games.

Last year, O line injuries aside, the O should have been much closer to it’s potential at this point (among those then healthy). Sadly it was as rolled out in the first half of the season. This year I think we will be better as time passes.

I feel certain Tom will be a starter this year.
That means the question is: "Who is better? Myers or Nijman?"
I think Nijman is both BETTER and MORE VALUABLE.
I also think Myers as a backup center and Caleb Jones as a backup T is a pretty good situation.

Has Myers locked down the C role through his performances? If the answer is no then there should be real competition and its absence would raise major questions.

Who are the best 5 linemen as a unit? Does that include Myers?

What is Tom’s best position? How do we know if he’s not been tried at the position Gute had said was the one they thought him most suited to when they drafted him?

If Myers gets hurt, who is the back up? Would that be the best 5 we would have available or the best 5 we had prepared to play at those positions?

If we don’t ask those questions and then do do through competition then we aren’t doing a very good job in my view. It looks like yesterday indicates that those questions are now being asked in the field. That should be a relief. May the best win out through their play not simply lack of tested alternatives.

HH, the more I think of solutions to this puzzle the more I like the idea of keeping Nijman at RT and having Tom start at C IF he legitimately beats Myers at the position. A complicating factor I haven't seen raised here is how will the leadership role at C change with JL10 vs AR12? I think it necessarily has to. Will Myers' previous experience help him, or will the required overlearning make it more difficult and he doesn't make this adjustment well?

That's one of those intangibles that could be very difficult to evaluate. Worse, the quicker they figure this out, the better prepared our starting C will be.

Respectfully, my friend, I could give a crap that Myers started two years in front of Aaron Rodgers. Actually, it was 6 games in Myers' Year 1. 17 games Year 2. As a matter of fact, I went back and compared Zach Tom's PFF Draft Profile to Josh Myers' draft profile. They are night and day.

ZACH TOM - CENTER
Overall Grade 84.8 / Pass Blocking Grade 92.1 / Run Blocking Grade 79.2

JOSH MYERS - CENTER
Overall Grade 65.4 / Pass Blocking Grade 65.9 / Run Blocking Grade 63.9

THIS makes me wonder if comments saying Aaron Rodgers wanted Myers over the left handed Creed Humphrey aren't closer to the truth of the matter??? Was that a Mark Murphy call with the final decision? Because Creed Humphrey was far and away the better choice at Center.

Myers PFF grades heading into the draft indicate that his being selected at #62 was a MAJOR REACH. It does beg the question as to whether or not it was Gutekunst's call? We won't get that answer until the book comes out!

Doesn't matter a whole lot anymore, but here we are.

Zach Tom is the better player. Let them compete, and the best man wins.

*** Since we've waited more than a decade for the Packers QB1 to hand the ball off to the RB from under Center, I WANT THERE TO BE A HOLE FOR THE RB to run through!!!

A power running game will help Jordan Love in his first year as QB1, and a power running game requires power players up front.

PackEyedOptomist wrote above "I was there yesterday. All of Carlson's misses were NEAR-misses. I'll give him plenty of rope. His leg is huge."

"More RAS Please! -
Miller would fit into the Lazard type of role. Odds are against him making the 53, but perhaps he could make it to the PS."

Agreed: I don't think he's got a fart's chance in a whirlwind of hitting the 53, but he's definitely a PS stash candidate. Maybe he's the guy they groom to be the "in case Deguara gets injured" guy...maybe he shows he can be a contributor on STs. His RAS score is buoyed by his size numbers...great size for a WR, bottom for a TE. Good speed agility for a TE, not so much for a WR.

Lazard was a really good college WR. Productive, high-volume guy over four years at Iowa State. GMs seemed to pay more attention to a stopwatch than to what he did on the field.

RC, from where I was sitting Carlson's misses were so close I could only tell by the reaction from our defensive player's reactions, they were right in front of me.

Almost every Carlson kick was WAY over the uprights, it was INSANE! 95 yards? No problem, go for the FG, lol.

Totally agree RC about the age of kickers being a difference maker if the talent is there. This is a young up and coming team and best long-term players need to stay so they develop along with the rest of the team.

Yeah. I agree, splitpea1. Slaton was big, and WYATT may have been even bigger. Listened to Nags' reports from yesterday, and he had 2 Packers staff, including 1 scout and a reporter come up to him yesterday saying, "Did you see Devonte Wyatt???!!!"

Everything I've heard on Brooks has been solid. Wooden made some plays earlier in the week, but on the flip side, I heard Sean Rhyan stoned Wooden playing OG on 5 straight reps in their 1 on 1s.

Pretty cool stuff!

PS. Hope you know I was kidding yesterday. I always get jacked up hearing of Gutekunst's signings. Especially when their tape reveals that they've got the goods.

Everyone keeps talking about not talking Creed instead of Myers, but as I recall our OUTGOING former center was the one who put a bug in Gute's ear telling him to take Myers.