"That doesn’t mean that I think this defense has the horses to be a Top 15 defense — because it does not."

Whoa Nelly!! Are you telling me that the 28 draft picks on the defensive side of the ball in the last 6 drafts still aren't enough??

Well I guess Thompson could take a few more swings with his top 4 or 5 picks next season at the expense of his O-Line, OLB Corps, and aging WR group yet again.

If the 2011 and 2012 seasons didn't get him fired, all of the Playoff blowout losses didn't him fired, I wonder if anything will.

"Capers may not be coming back in 2018"

I'll believe it when I see it. Not that I wouldn't love a to see a simpler, more modern, execution based scheme.

I agree with you Cory.

I'm not a fire ___ guy. I don't really believe in that.

That being said I think its time to move on from Capers. I have no problem with the style of defense he runs. I actually like it for the most part.

What bothers me with Capers is that over the years there have always been miscommunication errors. That falls on the DC. This year there have been a lot of miscommunication and yes they were better when Burnett was in charge of the defense. But the 10 men on the field has to stop. High School teams can get 11 players on the field.

The biggest problem IMO is that Capers is to slow to react to what offenses are doing. For example on Sunday, when the saints were running all over us, when did he switch to using 3 DL? Sometimes our 2 DL sets just aren't big enough to stuff the run.

Sometimes it is the players he has aren't capable of doing it. But sometimes I really wonder if Capers doesn't have them in their best position to succeed. For example, look at what Casey Hayward and Micah Hyde have done since leaving Green Bay. In a different scheme they are playing lights out. In Green Bay they were 'ok'.
Also seeing King playing off coverage and giving up easy pass plays needs to end. King is a guy who was drafted mostly for his physical play, and can be a pest at the LOS. House was a guy who is really good at bumping at the LOS. So lets get them up on the LOS and being physical with WR's.
The defense has issues and sometimes it takes making a change at the top to get the message sent.

This week would be the perfect week to make a change, though I would give it about a 1.5% chance of happening. Making a move this week though would give whoever they wanted to promote Whitt, Moss or whoever an extra week to prepare. Also it would give them 9 games to determine if that guy could be their D-coordinator next year. The Lions made a move like that at OC. Their offense has been very good ever since switching.
It would make a lot of sense to make a switch at DC now. Though like I said, I don't see it happening. More likely in the offseason.

The biggest reason is "No Accountability", and it starts at the top with Murphy not holding TT accountable. That rolls downhill to McPuffy, then to the assistants, and then the players, everyone knows their job is safe.
It's not like we have an owner that wants to win, we have some suit sitting in an office that's more interested in building monuments to himself; shopping malls, parking lots, and the like.
God knows the profits keep rolling in and that keeps the BOD pacified while the "Owners" have no say in the matter.
Time to clean house, you can start with Murphy and move immediately to TT following that. Let's get back to winning before our second consecutive HOF QB is gone.

I don’t think a switch to a 4-3 adds more athleticism back when the Packers made the switch the 3-4 was the more athletic and faster base formation but that was before sub packages kind of took over. The problem isn’t what formation they run the problem is Capers scheme is just too gimmicky and complicated for this young squad that has so many new pieces yearly the Pack needs a fresh not necessarily young mind at DC Capers time is up I believe his defenses just don’t bring the best out of his players I mean the fact that you have two big physical corners that are more press corners yet you ask them to play zone makes no sense to me. The other lingering 1/2 complete issue is the inside linebacker position Blake Martinez is a stud but they need another of similar build and to play alongside him Joe Thomas is just a guy to me he’s extremely small for an inside guy at 6’2 225-230 and Jake Ryan lacks speed the Packers have ignored this position still. Another dominant presence on the D line would help I feel like Mike Daniels and Kenny Clark are suffering because of it I see Daniels as a perineal 5-8 sack guy but a lack of another presence means he gets the double teams.

"Many will say that general manager Ted Thompson wouldn’t fire Capers because he drafted an entire defense for his 3-4 scheme and if Capers leaves, a 4-3 would likely follow".

Last I heard was that McPuffy had full control over
hiring/firing his assistants, has that changed?

It's super difficult to distinguish whether it's the players or the coaches. I've always leaned more on the side of Ted Thompson being the bigger issue but certainly agree Dom Capers isn't putting our defense over the top.

Capers tries to do what he can with what he has like this new "star" package. But you're right, it doesn't seem like he's getting through to his players at all.

Speaking of the star package, remember the article on here about 2 months ago that predicted Damarious Randall would be our Chris Harris Jr.... lol Packer fans I tell ya.. Packer fans..

I said it all last season, and the off-season and now this year that our defense is trash and nobody wanted to hear it. I'm glad people are starting to see it!

Good article

I don't know how anyone can tell what kind of defensive talent they. Crappy tackling and free-range secondary co-ordination are issues that have shown through despite significant roster turnover over the years. That strongly suggests both are issues of coaching, not talent.

Tackling is a skill that can be taught, not a talent that a player has or doesn't have. It is the core function of a defense--to tackle the ball carrier. Because they do not execute that core defensive function well, they can never be a really good defense, no matter how much talent they have.

As for the poor coordination in the secondary, the answer is self-evident in the term. It is coordination and that word is in Caper's job title. They have had major issues trying to figure out who should be covering who for years. All the talent in the world won't make a difference if they don't bother covering up everybody. Left alone to roam freely, any NFL QB-receiver combo will gain yards. I present Ted Ginn's 100+ yards last week as exhibit A.

If these issues were rare, I can see laying the blame on the players. But they are not rare so they go back to the coaches. I don't want to say there are no bad students, only bad teachers. That's not true. But when everyone is a bad student, you have to examine the teacher.

Well the Packers can clean house and let the chips fall where they may. If that happened...you would have a long wait for the next SB winner. It seems that the asst. coaches on defense have been raised up by many on this board as being great. Yet, most everyone says Capers must go, but the other coaches are golden.

TT has had a couple of good drafts in a row, but before that he struck out a lot on those first round picks. The latter rounds guys didn't become anything special so those drafts weren't good. So add to the fact that Capers doesn't have those game changers on defense that most thought he should have and you got a hot mess of "throw everything you got at the offense and see what sticks attitude".If the DBs aren't in position, or losing their leverage then the asst. coaches should be held accountable. I find it odd that NONE of the Packers asst coaches except for McAdoo and WR coach have ever been hired by other teams. (I may be wrong but you catch my drift).

I think Capers and MM are good coaches, but there's a mental toughness that the players don't exhibit when injuries happen and the 2-3rd string guys don't step up. I think TT has changed his team development a little, but with 11 draft picks and a higher draft position may change the roster and add some real playmakers.

The reality is that the Packers don't have enough of a pass rush, don't have enough healthy DBs to do press coverage and their safeties don't cover up the mistakes of the CBs. The Oline is a patchwork that got Rodgers hurt and Hundley is being thrown in the fire. If Hundley can get his feet under him and they continue to run the ball and score some TDs, maybe they give the Defense enough rest to make stops and grab a turnover or two.

Or let's fire eveyone and start over and go back to the 70s.

It’s bad when you realize that only 6 yeah SIX players from 2011-2013 are on the roster and it would be 5 if House hadn’t come back that’s bad drafting and developing and then check out how many linebackers TT has whiffed on in those drafts its act quite ridiculous.

I realize I sound like a broken record but the only thing that's really broken is the inability of this team to get off the field third-and-long. it's been a sad saga for so many years I can't even count anymore.

For an emotional sport like football especially, it makes absolutely no sense not to have a coach on the sidelines, particularly on defense and particularly with the history of this team. Add to that, that MM is hands off it seems during the game, delegating D to his assistants. That's got to change but better yet let's just change coaches.

Two constants for the Green Bay Packers.

1) Outstanding QB Play

2) Soft Defenses

Can't completely prevent your QB being hurt in pro football, but you can fix the other one.

Enough already about switching schemes etc. Lack of and or poor tackling has been a problem since 2010-2011. If not longer. D always depended on turnovers. But I digress. It is MM's problem to solve and if he can not see that a new defensive approach, a new voice, a new coach is needed, the situation is hopeless.

Isnt our problem complacentcy. Martinez had 16 tackels in the game. Which ones were play stoppers or sent the saints off the field three and out. DItto for Mathews, even Perry got a decent play. Hey were cheering Randle for an interception, how many break ups did he have.

Yes some of our d guys make a play here and there. None of them do it consistently and none of them are capable of stopping the offense and getting off the field.

We must fact it that the guys Dom has arent very good. This is probably the 28th or worse defense in the league. Its only one of three things: Dom sucks, the players suck, or both.

We have made the playoffs 8 straight seasons. Sure we've only won one super bowl, but
You have to realize the New England Patriots are outliers. Even if you refuse to believe that, Tom Brady went TEN YEARS between championships. Once you get into the playoffs (especially into the deeper rounds as we always do), all the teams are talented so are we going to get blown out against Atlanta when we have a substantial amount of injuries? Of course we are. The goal is to make the playoffs every year, not win the super bowl. Once you're in you have to just hope for the best. Realize that Capers has had to coach through a substantial amount of injuries the past year and a half. That takes a toll. It doesn't matter who your coach is if he is coaching young 3rd string caliber players against starting NFL talents. We finally have some talent in King, Josh Jones, Martinez, Kenny Clark, and Mike Daniels. Let's see how this plays out.

Capers' play calling is "old fashioned" and he refuses to adapt to the new style of football defense. The middle of the field never seems to be covered. 3rd and 16 for N.O. last week needed a small screen pass in the middle to advance. I agree that the players either don't listen to his advice or don't understand the plays. Having 10 players on the field twice in one game demands being fired. Unfortunately, Capers needs to drop his pants to count to 11 and by then the play is already run. Enough is enough.

For the #keepCapers crowd, I'd like to direct you to Peter Bukowski and his Locked on Packers podcast where he asked THE question: "What is the signature of a Dom Capers defense?" (For the record, neither he nor Michelle Bruton could really answer that.)

That's the question. What is the "value added" of a Capers-led defense? What is better about a Capers-designed defense than another? Or put another way, can you honestly attribute anything about the 8 year run we've had to a Capers defense? Can a Capers-led defense win you a game? (Maybe) Can a Capers defense win you six games? What is the argument after nine years for continuing with Capers?

I'm really asking.

The defense is ALWAYS the weak link. Yes...players, personnel, youth...blah, blah, blahbity, blah. But Capers' defenses, regardless of personnel and the occasional breakout game always regress to a norm. Too many yards. Too many converted 3rd and 8 plays. Too many guys out of position. Too much soft man coverage. Too many missed assignments. Too many missed tackles. Too few guys on the field. Simply put: too little effective defense played.

Now you can pick nits and argue this or that about the details of this scheme or that plan, but what I want is the answer to this: Exactly what is it about Dom Capers and his design of the Packers' defense that wins games week in and week out?

Seriously. I'm really asking.

First of all, I used to be a member of the fire Capers crowd. But after looking at previous seasons I have backed off. I am happy we have a team that does not overreact to a single loss, and fire coaches for the sake of firing. That is what bad teams (such as the cleveland browns and new york jets do). So here we go, the reason Aaron Rodgers has a super bowl, and you may not like this, is a Dom Capers coached defense. Int against chicago to seal the week 17 win. Int to stop the Eagles drive in the Wild Card game. Pick 6 before the half against Atlanta in the divisional round to stop any sort of rally (Ill admit Rodgers was out of his mind this game, but without the defensive stop vs the Eagles this may not have happened). The NFC championship game against Chicago when Rodgers struggled mightily (2 INT's no TD's, his big play of the game was his tackle on an INT). Stopping Big Ben and the Steelers on a 4th quarter drive in the super bowl, when every single fan watching had seen Big Ben already drive down the field and win super bowl in the 4th quarter. But that is probably not recent enough, so I get it. 2011 (our 15-1 season) High powered offense turns the ball over 4 times. 2012 we get destroyed by Colin Kaepernick so we play again in 2013 and with a defense decimated by injury (and some cold weather) this Capers coached defense holds Colin in check. Again we are let down by the offense. 2014 the defense forces FOUR interceptions against Wilson, but Rodgers and the offense cannot score enough points (and we all know what happened with the onside kick). 2015 vs Arizona, hard to win that game with how injured we were. So by my count thats a super bowl in 2010, a 2011 offensive let down, a 2012 defensive meltdown, a 2013 offensive let down, a 2014 offensive let down (4 ints should equate to more points with Aaron rodgers, but alas we were stopped at the goal line multiple times). 2015 was an injury riddled year. And then last year where we played THE BEST offense at home with their MVP quarterback. Capers has put players in position to make plays, but if they can't make them that is on the player not the coach. For example, In 2013 Micah Hyde and in 2015 Sam Shields had chances at game changing interceptions. If they make the plays we are talking about how clutch our defense is.

On defense you can pick a player who consistently under performs or fails, a defensive alignment or scheme that fails and of course the number of injuries for the unit but what is not in question is the fact that the Defense is the reason the team has not had a Super Bowl appearance since 2010 with an almost identical set of defensive coaches top to bottom during that time period. Everyone talks about simplifying the defense but based on the above comments the simple answer for attacking this long term problem is with the coaching staff. That being the case the likely change is at the top, Dom Capers. Unlike in the past when McCarthy fired Bob Sanders and the entire defensive coaching crew and totally changed the scheme, the more reasonable approach now is at year end to thank Capers for his efforts and move on, any more delay and we are in "Shawn Slocum" territory.

The reason we haven't been a super bowl since 2010 is a failed onside kick recovery. In the past 9 years there has only been one NFC team to play in the super bowl twice, the Seattle Seahawks. If Bostick blocks for Jordy who catches the onside kick, the only team to have multiple super bowl appearances from the NFC in the past 9 years is the Green Bay Packers. Professional football really is that close that one play makes a difference, and can really change the narrative of a season. As for my argument to your stance that the defense is poor, please look above.

one thing i will say in defense of Dom Capers. he comes up with some really catchy package names.......NITRO!!!.....PSYCHO!!!!....doesn't get any better than that.

I have had and I have consistently posted 2 problems with Capers defense since 2011. Then after the 2103 season I became a fire Capers advocate. The first problem is their attitude. With a very few exceptions this defense has never had a tough, nasty attitude on defense. Woodson yes, Daniels yes, sometimes, Brice yes. To me this was obvious when the defense failed to step up after Rodgers was hurt in 2013. Now we're seeing the same again, specifically during the 2nd half of the game against the Saints. Defense should always have a take no prisoners attitude but especially when the starting QB and in effect the entire offense goes down.

My other problem is that Capers never seems to take away the opposing offense best weapon(s). Our opponents best players seem to consistently make the big plays against us and especially on 3rd and long. The whole world knows that Julio Jones is Atlanta's best threat and yet we do nothing different to stop him. Meanwhile, the Dolphins!!!? go into Atlanta and beat the Falcons.

I've been saying this for years, this defense needs as infusion of nasty attitude. Yes, they will probably still lose games without Rodgers but can we at least make our opponents pay for every yard, rather than make it look easy, at least on our home field? Can we make a QB uncomfortable in the pocket? Can we stop a 3rd and long ever? Can we stop playing soft when we have a lead even when Rodgers is healthy? Will we ever see the end of Mamby-Pamby football?
It's too frustrating for me to think about. Thanks, Since '61

The Defence just doesn't have the talent to compete, and we know that ugly fact. Doesn't TT have to accept some accountability for the terrible defence over the last 7 years?

With the trade deadline approaching, should we trade for a pass rusher? Frackle, Ryan are busts. Are high priced players are always hurt. Play the rookies Adams, Biegel, Jones and King.

So in other words Cory, you are admitting you have been wrong for a long time? For most of us that really, really know football, it's been obvious he's been a failure as a coach for years. So what was the exact moment that caused the proverbial "light bulb" to go on?

Welcome to the party pal!

I have played football as a young fellow....and I can tell you tackling is NOT just a physical skill. Hours and hours of tackling that damn 200 pound bag with a coach holding it up and pushing it at you...taught one how to tackle. Tackling is tough when you have a 200 pound running back bearing down on you full speed..the field looks mighty small.....but what makes the difference in a player who is a great tackler vs one who "chips" is heart. It is what is inside you that separates the greats you from the "others". I haven't seen one ounce of heart from our secondary
....maybe that should have been considered when drafting. It seems once these ball players get there big paychecks...if they ever had a heart...it has dissipated so that they can spend their money.

I don't know if anyone else noticed it, but before several snaps, the packers defense was in confusion. Waving, pointing, resetting alignment,... I think Capers is very knowledgeable, but his defense is too complicated for young players. Throughout the years, his defense has always done better when it was announced he simplified things.

I remember one play against Dallas, I think, where all the CBs looked like they were in zone, then all 4 CBs stopped 2 yards in front of 1st down marker, but 3 WRs kept running beyond that. Which meant there are now 2 safeties to cover 3 guys. The rush didn't get to the QB, and it was an easy big gain.

One thing that constantly puzzles me is how WRs get so wide open against packers. Packers playing zone is like pass and catch for QB and WR, with the packers' average pass rush.

Then there is the nitro package meant to deal with back and TE mismatches. But Josh Jones is not a LB, so he doesn't always play the LB position correctly which means some big runs.

The whole switch to 3-4 was due to MM having difficulty when planning against 3-4 defenses, and that it was suppose to be easier to find OLBs than DE in a 4-3. Well, that hasn't really panned out at this point. Plus, OLB position seems to be injury prone on the packers.

For the past 7 years, nothing much has changed. But something must change or else we face watching the same results. If it's not replacing Capers, then at least simplify the defense so that everyone is on the same page. This defense is not capable of handling a top 5 QB.

What about moving CMIII to ILB with Martines full time?
Give up on CMIII pass rushing,, he's not that effective at age 32. Give the Com helmet back to Martines until maybe Burnett is back?
Start Beigle and Adams playing.
Then 2 press corners and 3 safeties with 1 high.
Seems like a lot simpler defensive scheme for all types coverage and run defense

i agree on getting some fresh faces in on the Defensive side of the ball. It is time for a major change and if that means interviewing only 3-4 types of guys then why not interview only 3-4 types of guys. After all we interviewed a 3-4 guy when we brought Capers on and got rid of one of our best players Kampman.

That is not to say that Capers is a big dud or anything like that but sometimes things get stale. Pittsburgh dumped/retired Lebeau. There is time for some up and comer young guy to come in and take over this D. Is there anybody in the organization? Dont know - dont think so. Is there somebody who was here before and now has left and is ready to get into this? Dont know but somehow things are just not working this way. Close but no cigar .

Defensive drafting has been poor. Jones was a bust, Perry hardly a first round talent. Rollins and Randall not worth the picks they were taken at. Linebacking talent in general is substandard and now Matthews looks like he's in a freefall decline. You have to hold Capers accountable but TT is also a failure.

I have yet to find a fellow Packer fan to say, keep Capers. When Rodgers was sitting on the sidelines at the end of the NFCCG, he knew what the problem was, defense. He probably called his agent after watching the NO game and said, get ready to make some calls, I'm sick of this shit.

Keep Capers. Go back and look at the box score vs Saints on 9/8/2011.....first game after SB win. The same Capers defense that just won the Superbowl (including Nick Collins). The Saints scored 34 points and were on the verge of scoring 40/42. Drew Brees is good.

Most Packers fans don't realize that the Packers' offense only scored 24 points in XLV. Pittsburgh's offense scored 25. It was a Dom Capers' defense....Nick Collins TD that gave the Packers enough points to win the game. Not to mention a Jarrett Bush Int and Clay Matthews fumble strip. That's a pick six and 2 more turnovers that Capers' D gave McCarthy's offense.

Fast Forward to last Sunday's Saints game. 3 points scored in the second half by Packers......at home. That's a sad offense. Holding Drew Bress to 26 points---not bad at all. That's better than the 34 that Woodson, Collins, Tramon Williams, Matthews etc gave up in 2011.

Helmet headset convo

DC: Okay Haha, get everyone lined up, I'm not calling nitro here cause it sucks and you can't tackle.

HHCD: Okay so what LBs then? Are we running strait nickel?

DC: No I don't like Nitro anymore

HHCD: No Nickel

DC: Oh shit, I thought you said Nitro, did I tell you I don't like that anymore

HHCD: Damn Ingram scored, he played at Alabama like me, pretty sure we only had 10 guys out here

DC: oh shit.
We should probably use the helmet headset to communicate better. Next play count the amount of players we have on the field, not including yourself and it should be 10, and then Haha, you will make 11

HHDC: HAHAHAHA!!!

Capers...uses 2 DL against a running front with 2 tight ends= crap coaching. At this point I'm not even sure if we have enough true DL to run base let alone a 4-3. I'm more than sure Capers knows what packages he wants to run and has imput on who TT drafts for those packages. You all have known how I've felt about Capers over the years...I don't like him one bit.

Again the very nature of a 3-4, the middle of the field is vulnerable... see wiki on that. I also happen to believe it's vulnerable against double tight end set run heavy teams. You mix that with poor cb play with busted coverage and you get what we have.

For years I've advocated change at the DC position and all I heard was players not plays. I'm glad these gimmicky sub packages are being exposed for what they are and hope Capers gets canned. I'm pissed that over the years these experiments have hurt a really good QB in Aaron Rodgers.

Draft and develop is a bust. Offense without Rodgers and even with Rodgers lacks creativity. Defense has old philosophy and doesn't communicate and are usually confused. Time for a major shift. Out with TT, MM, and DC. No change equates to more seaaons of the same Ole frustration. FACT. Watch the remainder of this season. The truth will show by the eye test.