Packers Snap Counts Versus Seattle - Preseason Game 3
It is up to Brian Gutekunst and Matt LaFleur now.
The Packers pulled out a win. That said, I do not think many players made a major move due to the quality of their play towards making the team. A couple of players had bad days, bad enough to jeopardize their place on the 53-man roster, including Royce Newman. Jadakis Bonds made a case for the practice squad.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Walker | 46 | 59 | 4-16% |
| Nijman | 40 | 51 | 3-12% |
| Rhyan | 40 | 51 | 2-8% |
| Newman | 40 | 51 | 1-4% |
| Runyan | 38 | 49 | 2-8% |
| Tom | 36 | 46 | 3-12% |
| Empey | 32 | 41 | None |
| Caleb Jones | 32 | 41 | None |
| Myers | 28 | 36 | 2-8% |
| Jenkins | 28 | 36 | None |
| Schneider | 10 | 13 | 2-8% |
| Delance | 10 | 13 | 2-8% |
| Telfort | 10 | 13 | 1-4% |
The Packers dominated this came, particularly in the first half. The team finished with 164 rushing yards on a whopping 45 carries, a 3.6 yard average. Removing quarterback scrambles, the Packers averaged 3.61 yards per carry. In the first half, the team gained 101 yards on 24 carries, a 4.2 yard average. Removing quarterback scrambles, the Packers gained 68 yards on 19 carries, a 3.58 yard average. Seattle had 8 tackles for loss. That is a lot. The Packers had 3 tackles for loss. The line allowed no sacks or quarterback hits.
The Packers gained 23 first downs to just 14 for Seattle while holding the ball for 37 minutes and 24 seconds to just 22 minutes 36 seconds for Seattle. They converted 9 or 18 third down plays, though they were just 1 of 3 on fourth down. They were much more dominant in the first half, with 15 first downs to 4 for Seattle, converting 7 of 11 first downs, running 46 offensive plays to just 18 for Seattle, while gaining 205 net yards to 96 for Seattle. But the score at halftime was 12-7. In the second half, the Packers gained just 137 net total yards, converted 2 of 7 third down opportunities and one of two fourth down attempts. Seattle ran the same number of offensive plays and outgained Green Bay 183 to 137 yards.
I decided to watch Zach Tom closely during this contest after PFF gave him such a low grade last week. I thought he was fine in the running game while giving up just one pressure but no QB hits or sacks in pass protection. I thought Walker held up, though he whiffed on his block when Emanuel Wilson was attempting to convert a fourth a two in the second quarter. I don't think any offensive lineman made a big move towards making the team. Royce Newman had a rough game and certainly harmed his chances.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Clifford | 33 | 42 | |
| Love | 28 | 36 | |
| McGough | 17 | 22 |
None of the quarterbacks changed their positioning. Love finished with a 91.8 passer rating while Clifford finished wit a 73.6. Both had low yards per attempt, but Love tossed a touchdown pass to Watson. Love had a long of 15 and Clifford a long of 14. McGough finished with a 118 passer rating due to the 52 yard bomb to Bonds.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Wilson | 36 | 36 | 1-4% |
| Taylor | 17 | 22 | 8-32% |
| McGrary | 13 | 17 | None |
| Dillon | 12 | 15 | None |
| Pearson | DNP | DNP |
Patrick Taylor had a typical performance by his standards. He gained 24 yards on 6 carries and caught one pass for 8 yards. He did not hurt himself. Wilson arguably needed a big performance but did not deliver one. He did lead the Packers with 49 yards but needed 17 carries. His 2.9 yards per carry average does not stand out. He did have two carries that showed his running ability, and he arguably made a defender miss on those two carries. He caught both of his targets for 9 yards. His hands look fine. But if Taylor was not good enough to merit a spot on the 53-man roster last year, and Wilson is not clearly better, it seems possible that both are headed to the practice squad. Pearson did not play, and is in competition with Deguara.
It will be interesting to see what they do with Goodson. Their options are an injury settlement, placing him on injured reserve which would sideline for this season, or rostering him and then putting him on the IR. I would assume they will offer an injury settlement. I suppose he could eventually end up on the practice squad, though having possibly 3 RBs (Taylor, Wilson and Goodson) seems like a lot.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Kraft | 34 | 44 | 15-60% |
| Musgrave | 32 | 41 | 3-12% |
| Allen | 22 | 28 | 10-40% |
| Deguara | 9 | 12 | 11-44% |
Musgrave and Kraft are obviously going to make the roster. Allen caught 1 target for 1 yard. He is a willing blocker who just isn't particularly effective at it. He did play a lot of ST snaps. Allen did not do enough to move the needle and belongs on the practice squad unless he was lights out on STs. Deguara had no targetsbut still played a lot of ST snaps. Could the Packers roster just two tight ends? Kraft missed his block on the extra point. I suspect that the pro personnel department has a list of tight ends they hope to be able to acquire at cut downs.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Heath | 46 | 59 | 1-4% |
| Watson | 28 | 36 | |
| Dubose | 27 | 35 | 2-8% |
| Watts | 25 | 32 | 2-8% |
| Reed | 21 | 27 | 3-12% |
| Watts | 21 | 27 | 1-4% |
| Toure | 19 | 24 | 6-24% |
| Chrest | 19 | 24 | 1-4% |
| D Miller | 9 | 12 | 2-8% |
The Packers took a long look at Heath. He led the team with 7 targets, catching 4 for 35 yards. He again displayed his strong hands, though he failed to come up with one tough pass. He looks like a chain-over and I think since the Packers made no attempt to hide him, he is a lock for the 53-man roster. Bonds has helped himself in the last two games and in practice, but he was not in contention for a roster spot. He has a good chance to make the practice squad. Dubose caught his only target for 8 yards but doesn't play a lot of STs. He should be able to, but perhaps his injuries have hampered that effort. Unless they keep 7 WRs or Toure's seat is hotter than most think, I suspect Dubose is headed to the PS. Melton cannot get on the field.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Ford | 33 | 58 | 1-4% |
| Wooden | 23 | 40 | 1-4% |
| Slayton | 23 | 40 | None |
| Brooks | 19 | 33 | 1-4% |
| Moultrie | 17 | 30 | None |
| Clark | 9 | 16 | |
| Slaton | 6 | 11 | 2-8% |
| Wyatt | 5 | 9 | |
| Odumegwu | 3 | 5 |
This position group is set. Slayton, Jonathan Ford, and Odumegwu had no statistics. Moultrie had one assisted tackle.
| Player | Sna;ps | % | STs |
| Phillips | 35 | 61 | 1-4% |
| Cox | 29 | 51 | 6-24% |
| McDuffie | 16 | 28 | 3-12% |
| Mosby | 14 | 25 | 10-40% |
| Wilson | 13 | 23 | 17-68% |
| Enagbare | 13 | 23 | 12-48% |
| Van Ness | 12 | 21 | 2-8% |
| Hollins | 12 | 21 | 1-4% |
| Walker | 9 | 16 | 1-4% |
| P Smith | 4 | 7 | |
| Pierre | 3 | 5 | 1-4% |
Phillips had a nice camp and is very active. He again led the team with 7 tackles (6 solo). He does not play STs and the ILB room is filled with Bisaccia's guys. He is headed for the PS. Cox got some ST snaps. He had 2 tackles (1 solo), including a tackle for loss, and a pass defensed in 29 snaps. He probably helped his case, but was it enough? That is a ton of ST snaps for Mosby but he had no statistics. He is a candidate for the practice squad. McDuffie had a nice game, but he was a lock. Hollins had two assisted tackles, but I think he is OLB #5.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Valentine | 23 | 40 | 13-52% |
| Hamilton | 23 | 40 | 1-4% |
| Hooper | 23 | 40 | 1-4% |
| Ballentine | 17 | 30 | 11-44% |
| Johnson | 16 | 28 | 1-4% |
| T Ford | 16 | 28 | None |
| Jean-Charles | 15 | 26 | 9-36% |
| Gaines | 14 | 25 | 10-40% |
| Owens | 10 | 18 | 13-52% |
| K Thomas | 9 | 16 | 8-32% |
| Ford | 9 | 16 | |
| Douglas | 9 | 16 | |
| Savage | 9 | 16 | |
| Nixon | 7 | 12 |
Valentine had a good night. He should make the 53. Ballentine played a lot of STs and is a good bet. Gaines and Thomas had coverage lapses but they play a lot of STs, as does Owens. None of the safeties actually looks even average. Jean-Charles had one assisted tackle. This is his third year; it seems time to move on.
It appears that the Seahawks did not play any starters on offense of defense at all.
Photo courtesy of Mark Hoffman of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel/USA Today Network
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Comments (115)
Johnblood27
August 27, 2023 at 07:57 am
TGR, thanks for the snap counts! Your work is much appreciated!
There wasn't much to move any needles in this game, it was a real snooze-fest.
I liked what I saw of Musgrave although I really wanted to see more of an impact from Kraft. I have hopes of Kraft developing into a TE that is a strong blocker and a tackle-breaking pass catcher. I love a good physical TE that contributes yards and first downs.
The starting Defense looked good, the enthusiasm on the field was refreshing.
I am having my doubts about the offense, the youth is definitely going to make for some frustrating moments for sure. Patience will be key, but I am not good at that! I sure hope that AJ 1&2 can bring some stability in production allowing the passing game to grow and develop over the first 4 games.
Safety is a real and huge concern for this team. There needs to be a double-dip of early draft selections next year to shore up this cesspool of a position group. These safeties will hurt this team this season. Count on it. The poor play from the safety group will make great performances from the DL, LB and CB pale and seem less than they will be. Very unfortunate that there was no help infused.
I am ready for Whelan to take the P job. He will do just fine as a holder as well. The LS needs to get better for sure, snaps into the holders body were consistent and that my friends leads to misses and blocks. Get that fixed Richie!
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 09:44 am
Spot on, JB.
I think the best news of the week was hearing LaFleur say Moore’s knee injury was “day to day,” and not severe. Replays of Phillips rolling the back of his legs was ugly. Hoping the 3 weeks recovery time will see him back on the field healthy.
Despite that, Savage has done nothing, again. Owens is rarely in position to make plays. AJJ and Sapp III were our best Safeties yesterday.
ILB behind Campbell & Walker looks like a comparable talent void to S. Gutekunst has to make a trade or two to shore both positions up.
Pierre had 1 very sure tackle in only 3 snaps, and looks the part FAR MORE than any of McDuffie (who should not be a lock for the 53 IMO), Eric Wilson or Jimmy Phillips. Carpenter’s OJT leaves much to be desired.
I look at the whole lot at ILB as readily replaceable. I’d keep Pierre, and that’s it. Replace with new blood. McDuffie shouldn’t have been drafted. For every good play he makes, there’s 2 or 3 misses.
Are we seriously going to allow TEs to roam free over the middle for another year??? Fuck.
Get it fixed, please, Brian Gutekunst & Joe Barry.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 27, 2023 at 10:41 am
GG,
you're counting Quay Walker as a miss? ILB has been touted as a strength. Weak there & at S makes things rough. GREAT pass rush can help, but cannot fix it.
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 11:08 am
Behind Campbell and Walker…. We have nothing. Zero. Zippo. Nada.
ILB appeared a strength with a healthy Campbell & Walker. With Campbell injured there exists a huge gaping hole.
WestCoastPackerBacker
August 27, 2023 at 12:07 pm
I wouldn’t Imagine that that many teams have much talent at inside linebacker past two starters. How often do we actually play both ILB’s at the same time? It used to be the Packers, starting talented that position was meh. At least they appear to have two quality starters. I would worry more about the safety position where even is starting group is questionable.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 28, 2023 at 07:39 am
Thanks for the clarification. Looking over my detailed roster list, which is now outdated, this group includes #45 Wilson, 24 Carpenter, 46 Phillips
(53 Mosby is inside or outside?) If none of these are usable Gutey should have traded them. Carpenter and Wilson profile well with RAS of 8.92 & 9.48, sped of 4.52 & 4.53. Both at 230#.
I'm not sure exactly how waivers at cutdowns work but I think it's a total loss?
dobber
August 27, 2023 at 09:52 am
"The starting Defense looked good, the enthusiasm on the field was refreshing."
As they did last summer, too. The carryover in energy and intensity needs to be there: a repeat of 2022 will put a lot of pressure on the offense. I'd argue that the defense needs to lead this team out of the gate in 2023.
"I am having my doubts about the offense,"
Ready to see what happens when they start game-planning and utilizing all the pieces. I agree: AJones should make a big difference. He'll likely be the focal point of most defensive game plans, at least early on, and if he and Dillon aren't the center of the offensive game plan, LaF will be coaching his way out of town.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 27, 2023 at 10:54 am
Dobber,
while I still hope to see our run game be dominant and especially early, I think it's more complex than that. The comparison to an orchestra fails, and so does comparing MLF's role to a game of chess because that's just too static. Still, it's predictable that most teams will defend against the run until JL10 forces them to also defend the pass. That can happen very quickly I think, but it will be interesting to see.
We can run from TE & WR, although DeGuara as a running FB seems DOA. They seem unwilling to try Tom at C. I can still hope that's deliberate misdirection?
It'll still be up to MLF to keep opposing defenses guessing, and making them try to cover the whole field. Teams that do that better than we do might just determine our W-L record this year? It'll be interesting to see how that turns out ...
jannesbjornson
August 27, 2023 at 11:05 am
Why wait for next year to waste a pick on a safety when WR and OT will be the priorities? Get Gutedkunst into the trading room and snag a guy with some basic instincts. This topic was on the burner the past six years.
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 12:14 pm
That probably won’t happen until closer to the trade deadline, when another team’s hopes are dashed, and they want to unload.
Unless there’s a TE rich team ready to deal.
I’m with you on making trades for both TE & S help. Maybe ILB too. Campbell’s health is becoming a concern.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 28, 2023 at 07:42 am
Jannes, I'd hope next draft WR will not be a priority. O line, yes. I'm thinking Gutey should have already been trading for S & ILB.
jannesbjornson
August 28, 2023 at 12:21 pm
All Off-season the discussion group focused on safety and the right flank. Post-draft, still stuck in first gear. The TE need was Obvious, I would have brought in at least four. Too bad about Davis. I felt he was the better blocker compared to Lewis.
Hopefully, Rodgers stays upright for the 60% formula and they bag two # one picks in '24. I would use them on OT and CB as projected starters and the two pick on a guard. Still behind the curve with this pro personnel dept. Van Ness has to show something by mid-season.
bjb2012sime
August 27, 2023 at 07:57 pm
I can't believe that Gutey not only passed on Brian Branch, the top safety in the draft last year, but traded BACK with the Lions so they could get him. About as smart as the selection of Myers over Humphrey at center.
Personnel evaluation is suspect when these direct comparisons can be made.
TKWorldWide
August 27, 2023 at 08:10 pm
When I saw that developing,I merely took it to mean that GB wasn’t too excited about Branch. Time will tell.
I remember when GB needed a safety very badly and I was jazzed when they got the “highly rated” Clinton-Dix. Didn’t withstand the test of time.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 28, 2023 at 07:46 am
TK,
never trust someone named after a character from the Simpsons:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDuLHEoS45s&pp=ygUUU2ltcHNvbnMgbmVsc29uIGh...
stockholder
August 27, 2023 at 08:17 am
Interesting Snap counts.
Guess we still want the Lazard type WR.
Heath at 46, gives him a spot.
But I still think that A speedy Watson,
is better than a potato sack.
I'll take Cox over a extra RB.
And are the Wrs group, now specialists?
Or can they just run routes and not play action.
After all, we did draft 2 new Tes.
LLCHESTY
August 27, 2023 at 12:25 pm
If you want your comments to read like Faulkner on acid congratulations, You've succeeded.
Johnblood27
August 27, 2023 at 08:22 pm
you actually read that drivel?
LLCHESTY
August 27, 2023 at 10:24 pm
He can humorous.
jont
August 27, 2023 at 01:17 pm
"I still think that A speedy Watson,
is better than a potato sack."
Instant classic.
CHTV: come for the football, stay for the mystical insight.
Untylu1968
August 28, 2023 at 06:14 am
Did Rodgers send you some outdated Ayahuasca??
Coldworld
August 27, 2023 at 09:00 am
If Moore isn’t in fact our best S, then we don’t have one. We might as well start AJJ with Savage and live with it. The only two impressive plays at S were by Sapp and Tyrelle Ford late in the 4th. Fords might have been the single best play of the preseason deep not involving an interception. Tyrelle Ford is a CFL corner who only played a few snaps at S this week.
It’s a very long time since I have seen such a talentless group. I’d release Owens. He’s just not good. Ford is Ford. A good 4th S and STer. Gaines is awful at S. I never want to see him deep. I’d rather see Sapp. We might as well play Leavitt, it’s that bad.
Savage (by default), Moore (he at least flashed somewhat) AJJ, Ford, Leavitt Sapp to the PS, maybe with Tyrelle Ford. Then go hunting for as much waived talent as we can find for the extra spot and PS, and hope one emerges and be prepared to cut our dead wood.
Talking of dead wood, we also need a veteran G. Rhyan has come on, but Newman is not viable. Injuries happen. We are going to need better depth even allowing for Tom or a starting G moving around.
We have heard a lot of talk about Love starting slowly. With Doubs out, what I saw yesterday was a bunch of catchers (Heath exempted) starting slowly. No O with any QB is going to achieve with that many drops of eminently catchable balls. They did improve somewhat, but that was a poor showing initially. After the first group, our hands were much better. Maybe some tough coaching of “starters” needed to get heads straight.
I love Brooks, but playing him as a run stuffer was a disaster. If the idea was to see if Ford was a luxury, then the answer is he is emphatically not and won’t be week one. I’d sit one of the other young DL if that’s what it takes to activate him.
I didn’t get to focus on Allen. If his blocking is not adequate as you suggest, then I agree, waiver wire time. The problem is that I don’t see any vet being able to pick up enough of our system to really do the job quickly. In the short term, Allen may need to just get better initially or we are stuck with Deguara playing against physique again.
dobber
August 27, 2023 at 09:36 am
"If Moore isn’t in fact our best S, then we don’t have one. "
The potential for MD Jennings-type flashbacks is scary. Owens is mostly a try-hard box safety and special teamer. Leavitt is bad. The hope here is that depth and potential in the pass rush and front 7 will keep the pressure off this unit. They've been looking for a coverage safety for a long time...they'll have to lean on the CB group.
"Talking of dead wood, we also need a veteran G. "
It would be nice to find one, but I suspect they won't go looking. I suspect they'll ride with what they have. It could be a real problem if there's an injury, but they might find a physical mauler at cutdowns for the PS and hope.
"The problem is that I don’t see any vet being able to pick up enough of our system to really do the job quickly."
I disagree: a blocking specialist should be able to step in and cover those blocking snaps and likely the outlet routes pretty quickly. That guy will also likely be able to fit in with STs pretty fast.
Coldworld
August 27, 2023 at 10:54 am
To block effectively in the open field, you have to know the plays and options within them. That’s one of the reasons playing TE is hard. It’s not just your routes, it’s everyone’s and includes runs and options. Experience probably helps accelerate the curve, but it would still take time. A limited role perhaps. I doubt STs would take long if the guy had played a similar role.
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 12:11 pm
There’s a bunch of shit TEs on the market now. We’ll see at cutdowns. IND alone has 9 TEs on their 90 man roster.
Coldworld
August 27, 2023 at 12:16 pm
Nothing will happen until after waivers, however, I’ve still not rewatched, but PFF raved about Allen’s blocking yesterday, particularly run blocking. It may not be necessary.
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 12:44 pm
TRUE! Allen impressed on 2nd viewing this morning.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 28, 2023 at 07:50 am
That's encouraging to hear.
LambeauPlain
August 27, 2023 at 03:52 pm
Good synopsis above to start this thread, CW. I was nodding my head as I read it. Solid analysis.
I hope Johnson...the long term DB starter, Hawkeye team leader & Captain who brings CB skills to S...continues to pick up steam. He started slow in Camp...I see him all over the field flying to the ball.
My concern remains the run D, and it starts with the S position. Pinning hopes on a rookie? Maybe. Geez, the Packers are weaker at S now than last year...when S play was pathetic vs the run. And Savage is not exactly a savage hunt and tackle guy.
How long is Gutey's Cut Down Board? S, TE, G, ILB. All four positions help run the ball and defend against it. We need more men at those spots.
Is it just me...but did both our 2022 first rounders have quiet camps? Wyatt started strong and faded. I don't think Walker even got going.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 28, 2023 at 07:53 am
LP,
what do you think of the idea of Rasul Douglas playing S? Leaving CB to Ja, Nixon and Valentine?
Thegreatreynoldo
August 27, 2023 at 10:28 am
So, what do you really think of our safety room?
I imagine GB is going to put out 2 safeties who at best shouldn't be starters. I think Moore can tackle, but he has played safety before even if he got moved to CB. GReat athlete. What's missing and can they get it displayed?
Austin Allen is tall, but he just isn't a massive type of person. At 6' 7 and 5/8th inches and with 33 and 5/8ths inch long arms, his wingspan (80.875") is still less than Devondre Campbell's. He is a good athlete and moves well, but he only ran a 4.83 forty, nor did he try to improve that number at his pro day. 8 reps on the bench in March of 2022. I hope he is stronger now.
HawkPacker
August 27, 2023 at 10:50 am
Hmmm. I haven't seen any more commentary about Douglas being tried out at safety. I do not think they have tried him as of yet but am wondering if I missed something in that there are no comments or news of this.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 27, 2023 at 11:06 am
They have not tried that. Valentine was looking perfect, until the Pats game. He came crashing back to earth with some mistakes, including a really big P.I. at the goal line. He's still good, but not so great as to continue the idea he should start and that makes Rasul expendable from CB and should be moved to S. It might still be a good idea? Maybe they'll try that before the season's over?
WestCoastPackerBacker
August 27, 2023 at 12:17 pm
How exactly is Douglas expendable with Stokes on PUP and Alexander having a hamstring injury? When someone asked one of the secondary coaches about moving Douglas to safety, he responded as if it had neither been considered nor tried. I don’t think that is in the plans, nor should it be. Having a guy learn a brand new position during the season, leaving another important position slim is not good personnel management. As far as I can tell, the only ones suggesting that Douglas move to Safety are fans on chats. And that is only because Valentine was looking good at cornerback, and not based on whether safety might even be a good position for Douglas.
jannesbjornson
August 27, 2023 at 12:21 pm
Nixon would be the candidate to move to a safety spot.
Coldworld
August 27, 2023 at 12:27 pm
Even were that true, there’s nothing behind him. Gaines was terrible and that it. So we’d be moving Douglas back where he struggled last year even if Nixon worked out at S.
LLCHESTY
August 27, 2023 at 12:50 pm
Besides most likely needing two starting safeties next year the nickel spot will need reinforcement too. I'm hoping they look for a Javon Holland type that played all over in college and then fill in around them. A player that started at free safety and then moved up to nickel and the box as his college career advanced.
splitpea1
August 27, 2023 at 01:11 pm
Agreed. I was hoping Holland would somehow find his way to us a couple of years ago, but unfortunately we needed CB help even more.
Coldworld
August 27, 2023 at 10:59 am
Moore just needs time to settle back at S and stay healthy in my view. He was messed around previous to arriving here, and then was coming off a nasty injury last year. He was very unfortunate get rolled up on when he did and it looked a lot worse at the time. It’s just one of those things not a trend. He looks to offer better combined athletic ability and physicality than any other. Ford has his uses. To be honest I see him and Owens as similar. But I’d take Ford on STs over Owens.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 27, 2023 at 11:11 am
Moore's RAS is 9.24, the highest in the room. Ford is 9.23. Owens is 8. but he and Ford are listed at the same weight with Ford an inch taller. I see Owens as the much better tackler but Ford being able to get to the play.
Can we combine them? Lol
jannesbjornson
August 27, 2023 at 11:29 am
They cannot cover, Micah Hyde could w/out the RAS. A player personnel issue.
LambeauPlain
August 27, 2023 at 04:02 pm
What I liked about Allen yesterday in his run blocking was he executed his assignment and put a hat on his target. He doesn't use a Big Dog hat...but he keeps his target from making the tackle.
Needs the Packer's strength and conditioning staff work for a year. Practice Squad candidate.
Waiver wire for another TE.
DeGuara blocked well, the few snaps he played. Kraft is still struggling. Thinking too much and playing slow. The blocked PAT was on him.
jannesbjornson
August 27, 2023 at 11:11 am
Correct, Brooks is a DE and should be played as such which would entail more true Four man fronts with beef inside. I glanced at a few minutes of pre-season ball games and still remain unimpressed by Barry and his use of personnel. Time for Gutey to make , or break the season. Get on the phones.
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 12:56 pm
I agree, jannes. Our depth is freaking garbage in the middle at ILB, and our best Safety trying to come back from the knee after getting rolled up on. Campbell nursing injured ankle.
Rudy Ford might be our best S currently. That position needs help as well. STAT.
Spock
August 27, 2023 at 09:04 am
TGR, Thanks again for another preseason of snap counts (and I really appreciate the consolidated tweets from practices you do as well). I still haven't seen this last game (NFL+ is supposed to be part of my cable package but is being stubborn!). Ah well, I've learned patience over the years. Today is my and my wife's 46th wedding anniversary. Our favorite restaurant is closed on Sundays so we'll celebrate tomorrow. Interesting numbers: we were 23 when we got married, we were married 23 years at the turn of the century and now have another 23 years married in this century! Looking back seems like just yesterday we tied the knot, lol. Lots of changes in our lives and lots of changes with the Packers. I'm looking forward to the next 23 years, lol. GPG!
dobber
August 27, 2023 at 09:18 am
Congrats to you and yours, Spock! Continued wishes that you all live long and prosper!
Johnblood27
August 27, 2023 at 08:30 pm
\
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Fascinating...
Thegreatreynoldo
August 27, 2023 at 09:53 am
Congratulations! And thanks for reading.
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 09:54 am
Congratulations to you & your wife, Spock. Very special.
ImaPayne
August 27, 2023 at 10:01 am
Congrats on your anniversary. My wife and I will be having our 54th next month. LIke you said, there's been a lot of change over those years.
We joked we should have written a book on how to make moving easy since we've moved so many times I lost count. Enjoy your dinner. and hopefully the packers season too.
The NFL network is the only way I will see the packers games in that I dont have the sunday ticket this year.
T7Steve
August 28, 2023 at 01:58 pm
I had to record the game that only came on last night for the first time. Have only watched the 1st 1/4 so far.
I was happy about how the game was going till I read TGR saying that Seatle didn't play any starters. Now I'm not too sure about the offence OR the defense.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 27, 2023 at 11:13 am
Congratulations Mr Spock! Live long and prosper, lol.
TKWorldWide
August 27, 2023 at 09:13 pm
Congratulations, good sir!
T7Steve
August 28, 2023 at 02:01 pm
Congrats young fella.
Do you have one of Ja's jerseys? With all those 23s I think it's a good idea to think about.
dobber
August 27, 2023 at 09:17 am
Thanks for this rapid turnaround on our behalf, TGR!
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 09:59 am
Thanks, TGR! This is great to see, as always.
Our ILBs Carpenter, Wilson, Phillips & McDuffie leave much to be desired.
I reviewed McDuffie’s play just to see what the hell was up:
—
Maybe 3 positive plays in 15 snaps.
1 Kenny Clark TFL. McDuffie assist.
2 Gives up 4 yd reception to 17 from SEA.
3 Slaton TFL before McDuffie could get there.
4 McDuffie leaves RB Charbonnet open in flat L for +6.
5 Valentine w near INT
PUNT
6 McDuffie with good tackle for 1 yd gain
7 McDuffie clears zone where TE makes reception gain of 1. TE slipped and it should have gone for 10 yds.
8 RB Dallas reception. McDuffie tackle gain of 3
9 McDuffie PI, blatant
10 McDuffie helps stop 3rd & 1 scrum
11 McDuffie washed out of run up middle for 9
12 2nd and 1, McDuffie gets decleated on a block landing on his back at LOS on an explosive run play right at him for 27.
13 McDuffie blocked out of run up middle for 5
14 McDuffie positive run stop up middle for +1.5
TD over Gaines
15 kneel down at half
—
What a dumpster fire. I thought Joe Barry was a LB guru…
MOSBY! - 10 ST snaps? Now THAT’s a guy with enough raw athleticism and nose for the ball I’d like to see moved to ILB. I really think a position change could be a huge pay-off with Mosby.
HE WAS A SAFETY!!!! FFS. Put Mosby at ILB and I bet he’d instantly outshine McDuffie, with the potential to become a great monster in the middle of our D.
The fact that we’re this far along with that huge, gaping void of nothingness in our middle D (ILB) is disturbing.
AARON MOSBY is a tweener at OLB, but a PERFECT SIZE AT ILB. His skill set is PERFECT for ILB.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 27, 2023 at 10:32 am
I like McDuffie better than you do. Okay as a backup, for a game or three.
Interesting that Allen and Mosby each got 10 ST snaps.
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 11:00 am
Yeah, TGR. I just keep wanting to see more with him. This game? McDuffie was 3:1 bad plays vs. good.
jannesbjornson
August 27, 2023 at 11:22 am
Why would he be motivated playing against scrubs? Seattle didn't play any of their starters. He does the job when the real games begin. I like Wilson on sp teams and knows LB better than Carpenter. Why did he bag Carpenter when Barry cannot figure out how to cover the middle of the field?
SicSemperTyrannis
August 28, 2023 at 08:00 am
I don't like the idea of any of our players not doing their best. Even if it's just a preseason game, and against scrubs. That mindset was shipped out to the Jets. DOMINATE! Hopefully he does come regular season.
jannesbjornson
August 28, 2023 at 12:31 pm
The evaluation is relative to the opponent. The coaching staff learned more about their squad during the scrums with Belichick and the Bengals.
Coldworld
August 27, 2023 at 11:03 am
Yes, I don’t read those plays as you do. I think Herman thought he did well too. Is he a star? No, but he was not a weak link as you suggest on my viewing.
Coldworld
August 27, 2023 at 12:05 pm
PFFs top 2 offensive players:
1. WR Jadakis Bonds: 79.6
2. TE Austin Allen: 79.6
Bonds is obvious, but Allen’s was essentially entirely based upon his blocking and particularly his run blocking which they rated as excellent.
If PFF is close to coinciding with the team’s opinion, then Allen makes this team and will see the field. That would be a very big plus.
The defensive top ratings are interesting too:
1. CB Tyrell Ford: 89.3
2. OLB Brenton Cox Jr.: 86.0
3. OLB Lukas Van Ness: 83.8
4. LB Eric Wilson: 83.2
5. OLB Keshawn Banks: 82.7.
I’m for putting Tyrelle on the PS, as I’ve already stated. He’s a smaller but better deep option at S than most we have.
Really good to see Cox and Van Ness, however, I think the most salient is Wilson. He’s not garbage depth on D and hadn’t been all summer. He makes this team justifiably.
Carpenter, Gaines, and Levitt we’re all in the bottom 5 and slammed for coverage. I would not keep any of them.
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 12:36 pm
Great stuff, Coldworld. I watched Allen closely, and he was blocking very well. I was a little taken aback. Good to see. He’s a keeper.
I didn’t see much from Eric Wilson, but have liked him more than McDuffie, Carpenter and Phillips.
Cox Jr. won a 53 spot yesterday. I like Banks, but for PS. LVN’s grades a plus. I think we’ll see incremental improvements from him throughout 2023.
Totally agree on Carpenter, Gaines & Leavitt. Bisaccia’s going to have to suck it up and get other players, better players who have positional value schooled in STs.
His favorites only delivered a #22 NFL ranking on STs last year. I’m sick of keeping these players who suck at positions of need.
I’d keep Tyrell Ford over Savage right now. Easy. Savage has done zero.
Thanks for sharing that Cdub!
stockholder
August 27, 2023 at 12:48 pm
I went this way -
OFFENSE 23
Qb - Love, Clifford
Rb- Jones, Dillon,
WR- Watson, Doubs, Toure, Reed, Heath, Wicks,
Te- Musgrave, Kraft, DeGuara
OLT - Tom, Walker, Nijman, Bahk, Jones
OLG - Jenkins, Runyan, Rhyan, Newman
OC- Myers
Defense - 27
DL- Wyatt, TJ Slaton, Wooden, Brooks, Clark,
OLB- Van Ess, Smith, Enagbare, Cox, Hollins,
ILB - Walker, D. Campbell, Wilson, T. Carpenter,
CB- C. Valentine, Douglas,Alexander, Stokes, C. Ballentine, Thomas,
S- Owens, Savage, Ford, Johnson, Moore inj?, Gaines
Kr- NB- Nixon
Coldworld
August 27, 2023 at 01:45 pm
I’m not in favor of keeping Newman, but if we don’t (and this may come after cut downs) we will sign someone.
Stokes will start on the Pup. I think they keep Ballentine but Thomas is probably on the outside. After yesterday, I don’t think Gaines is a guy I’d want to play. If they keep him I hope they are churning. I think he’d be gone if they found an alternative.
Based upon yesterday, I think Allen makes it as blocking TE, rightly. We pick up another for the PS.
There no way Gary is not on the roster, I assume that’s an error of omission. We will see if they roster Wicks or attempt to get him through waivers.
I still think that they are probably trying to trade Nijman. I would not blame him if he wanted that too. Bakh, Tom, Walker and Caleb Jones plus Jenkins is enough if we pick up a serviceable G.
stockholder
August 27, 2023 at 03:39 pm
Yes- Gary if Ready -replaces Stokes*.
Gaines is St. Back up Nb.
But I won't say your wrong on Newman or Gaines.
jannesbjornson
August 28, 2023 at 12:42 pm
Newman had his chances, year three for him.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 28, 2023 at 08:03 am
Agreed on #45 Wilson, he's at least a solid depth player.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 27, 2023 at 11:19 am
GG, your point #12 is what really opened my eyes to McDuffie. #5, what did he have to do with that?
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 11:50 am
I merely listed all of McDuffie’s snaps. That TD wasn’t on him, just a play away from him.
You know, McDuffie is a BC friend of Dillon, and Dillon was in Gutekunst’s ear about him, influencing his decision to draft McDuffie.
I never liked the pick.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 28, 2023 at 08:05 am
Thanks. I read your list wrong. It's a complicated game ...
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 12:07 pm
DEFREAKINGCLEATED!!!
stockholder
August 27, 2023 at 11:33 am
You're Right - Cut McDuffie. No jump.
Put Hollins at ILB.
Keep cox.
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 11:53 am
Mosby is a former DB. Makes a helluva lot of sense to me to move a playmaker like Mosby to ILB. Especially with that size to shut down any TE. He’s got wheels and instincts. Ball skills & tackling ability.
Why not? Seems like a no brainer.
Our ILBs behind Campbell & Walker are all the same… LACKING in big playmaking ability.
Aaron Mosby is 6-4 244. He’s got great burst and explosion. Burst acceleration was what the much smaller McDuffie was drafted for. Mosby is known as a plus chase LB. Good length. 10” hands. Gifted dropping into coverage.
FEROCIOUS against the run & extremely versatile.
Again, why the hell not?
stockholder
August 27, 2023 at 12:52 pm
.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 28, 2023 at 08:07 am
GG, I find Mosby listed at 6'3 256. I like the idea of him at ILB.
Grandfathered
August 27, 2023 at 10:10 am
I'm sorry to see Jean-Charles not stepping up with improvement in tackeling. I guess a CB who is below average in coverage and can't tackle needs to be waived, even if he was a draft choice.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 27, 2023 at 11:21 am
He really stood out at the practices I attended as sub-par. Hopefully his snaps were just to confirm that.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 27, 2023 at 10:41 am
I had not realized that Seattle didn't play a single starter. That means no starting OL, TEs, WRs, QB, RBs, DL, ILB, Edge, CB or safeties. GB did dominate but not perhaps by as great a margin as they should have.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 27, 2023 at 11:22 am
The announcers on the broadcast I watched (TMJ4) identified at least a few Seattle starters in the game. I won't vouch for them being correct about it.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 27, 2023 at 07:16 pm
I don't know Seattle's team either. I just looked up seahawks dot com and checked their depth chart against the snap counts from nfl gsis. I may have gone too fast but I didn't see a single name listed by the Seahawks on their depth chart as first string in the list of guys who played Saturday.
Coldworld
August 27, 2023 at 11:54 am
No projected starters in the strict sense played on O. Some of their firsts/Starters played on D. A lot of their likely roster played the first half, particularly on D, it was not all back of the roster people. A lot of their wide receivers are hurt, which makes not playing slightly misleading in the sense that some we saw may actually be playing in 2 weeks.
Leatherhead
August 27, 2023 at 10:45 am
""The Packers dominated this came (game), particularly in the first half"""
Typo notwithstanding, this was my takeaway as well. I know that we're supposed to display our acumen by microanalyzing everything, but the big picture, IMO, was that the Packers are ready to compete this year.
Every team has strengths and weaknesses, even the Chiefs, even the Eagles, even the Vikings. The goal is to play to your strengths and compensate for your weaknesses, and if the Packers do that, they have a great chance to win the division this year.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 27, 2023 at 11:33 am
LH,
My big picture view of this game was that our run blocking lacks. When Wilson was ineffective, I see this as why. And vice versa. The main analysis I'm interested in is what made Dlllon's 14 yard run work? How much of that did he create, after taking what blockers created for him? And who made good blocks on that play?
Other than that the bad play early by our WRs ("slow start?" Call it what it is) emphasizes the need for dominance from our O line all the way across, especially in the run game.
I can't really analyze what our problem was in our defensive backfield. Did the game plan have our players in position to succeed and they just failed? Was this really JB's creation? I don't have answers.
Coldworld
August 27, 2023 at 12:23 pm
We did t really have a problem in our defensive backfield (other than S play) till well into depth. Gaines was awful, so was Carpenter at ILB. Leavitt could not cover the upright. We got better when Tyrelle Ford and Benny Sapp III came in at the end (maybe the best tandem at S all day).
Ballentine was ok at CB with Hooper, Wilson quite good at ILB, but the center of the field was players showing that they do not remotely belong on D.
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 11:15 am
I’d like to know why the Packers failed to pursue S Isaiah Simmons…???
The Giants traded for the former #8 overall pick 2 days ago. Simmons wants to return to his natural Safety position at NYG.
Wow.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 27, 2023 at 11:42 am
I still wonder where Adrian Amos is in all this. Is that a devastating cap casualty? Less than $2MM last year.
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 12:08 pm
I loved Amos.
T7Steve
August 28, 2023 at 02:20 pm
Amos was a team leader that played out of his head against the Bears. Worth 2mil for each of those games.
HarryHodag
August 27, 2023 at 11:52 am
My most noticeable takeaway was the enthusiasm of the players. Everyone seemed to play hard. In the early season that is what you hope to accomplish. Gone, apparently, is the 'we've got this in the bag' attitude of years past.
I really liked the defense going after the runner/receiver in mass.
I think this will be the pattern for the coming season. You will see a 50-50 mix of run- pass and a bit more aggressive defense.
Footnote: If I could have reached through the screen and given Kevin Harlan and John Kuhn a bat on the back of the head I would have. On the blocked extra point they BOTH put the blame on Carlson, yet never mentioned that the end blocker blew his assignment and let a rusher have a free crack at blocking the kick.
Have they lost their eyesight? The snap, hold, kick were spot on yet for some reason they blamed Carlson.
Maybe the miss had something to do with a lousy special teams block? What is Carlson supposed to do, kick it through a human body in front of him? One of the dumbest calls I've heard by two guys who should know better.
The media has been on Carlson all camp, a little bit like they've been waiting to pounce on every Jordan Love mistake. Sad.
Coldworld
August 27, 2023 at 12:31 pm
Yes, I think it’s been made clear that that was not on Carlson by those that matter. To be fair, they did correct their on air call once they saw the replay.
GregC
August 27, 2023 at 12:37 pm
I don't recall them blaming it on Carlson. They did not absolve him as they should have, but they didn't specifically blame it on him either. A replay was shown, and it was clear what happened, so maybe they felt there was no need to comment.
LambeauPlain
August 27, 2023 at 04:35 pm
On the blocked PAT, Kuhn started by blaming the kick process as being too slow. On replay he corrected himself sayin "the process looked fine". Then he focused on Kraft who let the outside rusher run past him on a direct line to the holder. All Kraft need was a brush block to knock him off a step or two...before fully engaging the second outside rusher.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 28, 2023 at 08:12 am
Agreed. I'd hope for Kraft to be a monster blocker.
T7Steve
August 28, 2023 at 02:24 pm
Maybe he's a monster learner? Get this out of the way in preseason.
ImaPayne
August 27, 2023 at 12:25 pm
Thanks again for the numbers and comments. Sounds like we again have pass d concerns. Im not expecting much this year so I shouldnt be dis appointed.
LLCHESTY
August 27, 2023 at 01:01 pm
I think you will be quite disappointed in the Vikings season.
greengold
August 27, 2023 at 01:07 pm
LL playing Tenacious D. Lolz! Vikings lost to the Cardinals.
Leatherhead
August 27, 2023 at 02:52 pm
You do realize we had one of the better pass defenses in the league last year, right?
LambeauPlain
August 27, 2023 at 04:37 pm
With the fewest passes defended...and one of the worst run D's in the NFL.
Kenny will help the run D. My worry is S and ILB.
Leatherhead
August 27, 2023 at 08:57 pm
It would be if teams threw on us more and ran less?
Passes move the ball farther and faster. They result in more big plays and more TDs. Why would you encourage teams to pass more? Isnt it better to have Mahomes handing off instead of throwing?
It’s clear you don’t get it. You aren’t the only one. The more you stuff the run, the more teams will throw. A good run attempt is 5 yards, an average run attempt is 7.
13TimeChamps
August 27, 2023 at 09:27 pm
So, let me try to "get it".
If you have one of the league's best pass defenses...your strength...and you have one of the league's worst run defenses...your weakness...you would prefer that teams continue to run on you.
Wouldn't you want teams to throw on you if that is what your defense is really good at instead of run on you if that is what your defense is not good at?
Who cares how 1st downs and the chains keep moving against your defense are attained? Stop what you're good at, not what you're not.
LLCHESTY
August 27, 2023 at 10:34 pm
Not to mention stopping the run on 1st down puts a team in disadvantageous down and distance situations. 2nd and 5 gives a team a lot more options than 2nd and 9. LH knows this and chooses to ignore it.
LambeauPlain
August 28, 2023 at 07:50 am
It's clear you have a weird blind spot for Defensive performance. If you don't stop the run you will lose most games.
You seem knowledgeable about the game LH...but you don't get how offenses attack a D.
jannesbjornson
August 28, 2023 at 12:38 pm
Especially behind by three in the fourth quarter and the opponent wants to perform their Four Minute offense.
Stop them cold and sack their QB. Get the 3 and out!
TKWorldWide
August 27, 2023 at 09:10 pm
Worry bus pulling up right outside soon!
LeotisHarris
August 27, 2023 at 09:49 pm
The bus came by and I got on, that's when it all began.
13TimeChamps
August 27, 2023 at 05:49 pm
I know you bristle at any negative comments, even constructive ones, concerning the Packer's defense. But I find it hard to understand...even with my mental condition...that someone with your football background...coaching and playing...which is impressive btw, that you can't see how having one of the worst run defenses in the league isn't going to encourage teams to pass less and run more, which will obviously have a direct impact on our pass defense stats.
Hopefully, our run defense improves this year, so that argument will become moot.
Johnblood27
August 27, 2023 at 08:41 pm
Do you mean moot or mute?
How about both...
Turophile
August 28, 2023 at 05:30 am
Moot is correct.
I see it misspelled as mute all the time, but maybe I'm being too much of a grammar nazi - ok, time to self-mute.
ImaPayne
August 27, 2023 at 09:56 pm
Finally got to see some of the game. Seemed we played our ones in the first half. Observations, looked like were trying to go to a short passing game to give Love a chance to get rid of the ball. Problem, our guys are covered a lot and were not streching the field so they are playing deep.
Looks like a run first team, good luck with that going up against quick strike offenses like the Vikes.
We do have some speed on the outside linebacker position this year. Havent seen a lot yet on pass d other then two guys for seattle were wide open with no one on their backs contesting for the ball.
LLCHESTY
August 27, 2023 at 10:38 pm
You mean the quick strike Vikings team we beat this year 40-17?
SicSemperTyrannis
August 28, 2023 at 08:20 am
Quick strike or slow strike does not matter, possession alternates. Maybe Jesse Ventura waterboarded you too long?
Nothing in preseason shows what the offensive scheme is going to be. Just because they ran a lot means nothing other than they were trying to get a look at the run game to evaluate talent at depth, something they hadn't done much of in the previous 2 games.
They got plenty to evaluate. I think it's fortunate that Gutey's involved in the adjustment process at this stage.
T7Steve
August 28, 2023 at 02:32 pm
Were you surprised how many snaps Dillan played?