2023 NFL Draft: The Reasons Behind the Picks
Gutekunst sticks to his board...and his philosophy.
By KenLass
We all knew the areas in which the Packers needed help going into the draft. The shopping list was long. It included receiver, tight end, tackle, safety, edge and defensive line. What we didn’t know was how General Manager Brian Gutekunst would prioritize those needs.
As it turned out, when Green Bay went on the clock with the number thirteen pick in the first round, there were top rated players available at all of those positions. The number one prospects at receiver, tight end and safety were still on the board. Just one D-lineman and two edge rushers had been taken. It was a veritable buffet of great prospects to choose from.
First Round, Pick #13 – Lukas Van Ness, Edge, Iowa
Under much public pressure to draft offensive help for Jordan Love, Gutekunst made the fundamental decision to stick with his board, which clearly had defensive prospects ranked higher. In selecting the powerful and fast Van Ness, he may well have addressed two defensive holes with one pick. Having run a 4.5 forty at the combine, an impressive speed for a man his size, the Iowa product projects mainly as an edge rusher. But at 6-5 and 277 lbs., he is also big enough and strong enough (his nickname is Hercules) to move up into the defensive line in spot duty to help the thin ranks in that unit. And oh, by the way, he blocked two punts on special teams.
The selection of Van Ness tells you a few things. The Packers don’t feel second year player Kingsley Enagbare is ready to start. It also tells you the team feels Rashan Gary won’t be back from his knee injury until well into the season, and who knows how long before he regains top form. It also likely means the team is moving on from Preston Smith after this season, seeing as his cap hit in 2024 rises to $16.5 million and he will be 31 years old.
Gutekunst passed on receiver Jaxon Smith-Njigba and tight ends Dalton Kincaid and Michael Mayer, as well as tackle Broderick Jones, who went to the Steelers with the very next pick. He was gambling there would not be a heavy run on offensive skill position players in the late first round. Indeed, there was a receiver run with four in a row being taken from picks 20 through 23. Still, Gutekunst told the media Thursday night that “his board held up” and he felt good about his chances on Day Two.
Second Round, Pick #42 – Luke Musgrave, TE, Oregon State
Do you find yourself feeling a bit letdown after the Packers make a selection? There’s a reason for it. It’s because Gutekunst seldom makes the sexy pick. He could care less whether a player was a star in college. He seeks out the combination of size and speed and is not scared off by injury history. He likes to draft based on potential rather than accomplishment. This approach results in a tendency to pick players that are further down the list. Picks that are often labeled as a reach. Rashan Gary and Devonte Wyatt are two examples. So is his first pick in the second round.
After watching two high visibility tight ends go off the board in front of him (Michael Mayer and Sam LaPorta), Gutekunst tabbed Musgrave, not at all bothered by the fact the Oregon State prospect played just two games last year because of a knee injury. Dripping with athleticism, Musgrave dropped jaws at the Senior Bowl. At 6-5 and 253, he ran a 4.6 forty. Big target over the middle. Runs past safeties down the seam and on the boundary. Plays inside and in the slot. But can he stay healthy? Gutekunst sees in Musgrave the tools to be another Jermichael Finley. Finley’s career ended prematurely because of injury. The hope is history doesn’t repeat itself.
Second Round, Pick #50 – Jayden Reed, WR, Michigan State
Here it is again. Potential over performance. You won’t find Reed in the top ten of most receiver prospect lists. The CHTV guide had him ranked eighteenth. His college stats are not eye popping. He is small at under 5-11 and 187. There were more accomplished receiver options available, including Jalin Hyatt, Rashee Rice and Marvin Mims, all of whom went later in the same round.
But Gutekunst sees lethal speed. Fierce competitive nature on contested balls. If he gets an inch of separation on crosses or posts forget about it. He’s gone. The Packers see a slightly taller and maybe faster version of Randall Cobb in his prime. Reed is also a top flight punt returner, in case Rich Bisaccia wants Keisean Nixon to focus on kickoff returns. Physically Reed looks like strictly a slot player, but coaches feel he can line up outside. If he can get off the line of scrimmage cleanly at this level he will be hard to handle in space. Picture Christian Watson and Reed both soaring downfield at top speed. Can you cover them both?
Third Round, Pick #78 – Tucker Kraft, TE, South Dakota State
The theme continues. Held to just 27 catches last season by injuries. But potential off the charts. Gutekunst sees him as a possession guy. Big, reliable target over the middle on third and five. “Tucker’s very good with the ball in his hands after the catch” Gutey said. Pretty good blocker. Combined with Musgrave, the Packers can run the two tight end formations that Matt LaFleur loves to build his offense around. Kraft may have played at a small school, but there are reports he was offered a transfer to Alabama before last season. That tells you something about potential.
Fourth Round, Pick #116 – Colby Wooden, DL, Auburn
Versatility with a capital V. The Packers like his quick twitch off the snap. He exploded off the line for 30 tackles for loss. A bit of a tweener physically. At 273 some think he would be a bit light as a pro DL, and perhaps a tad too slow for edge. The Packers feel he can do both. They will start him inside and move him around. Ranked fifteenth among DL’s by CHTV. Green Bay is very thin on the D-line and Wooden figures to be in the rotation immediately. Great locker room guy with a terrific work ethic. A scout described him as “a coach’s dream”.
Fifth Round, Pick #149 – Sean Clifford, QB, Penn State
The Packers knew they had to take a developmental signal caller at some point, but it is likely Clifford was not their top choice. When a run of five quarterbacks took place beginning in the late fourth round, Gutekunst knew he couldn’t wait any longer. Guys such as Max Dugan and Tanner McKee were still on the board, but Gutekunst went with a four year starter who is smart and has played in a lot of big games. Easily the most heavily criticized pick of this draft, the evaluations of Clifford point out a lack of arm strength and accuracy. The Packers don’t agree. “He’s a natural thrower. All the things we look for in quarterbacks, he possesses” said Matt LaFleur.
Clifford is most certainly a project, but a guy who holds the Penn State career record for touchdown passes, and who was voted a four year team captain, can’t be all bad. Will Levis, who was taken at the top of the second round, spent three years at Penn State and then transferred out because he couldn’t beat out Clifford. The Former Nittany Lion was brought in for a visit by Green Bay so the team knew what they were getting and must see him as a fit. The CHTV guide ranked him sixteenth. The team wants Clifford to beat out Danny Etling for the back-up job. If not he will learn his craft from the vantage point of the practice squad.
Fifth Round, Pick #159 – Dontayvion Wicks, WR, Virginia
If the Packers can’t find the cap room to sign a veteran receiver, they need to stack the WR room with a pile of prospects and hope that at least one of them will emerge as a number three. Wicks has the talent to make a run at that role. Green Bay no doubt was duly impressed by his junior year, when he racked up over 1,200 yards in receptions and nine touchdowns. His senior year was not nearly as productive as he struggled to adjust to a new system, but had a solid Senior Bowl. His strength is his quick release off the line and his ability to make the contested catch down the field. He’s a big play guy with 27 catches of more than 20 yards. Does have an issue with drops. Long strider. Former basketball player. He’s a guy Jordan Love could throw jump balls at and feel good Wicks will come down with it. CHTV ranked him thirteenth, five spots ahead of second round pick Reed. Wicks was another player brought in for a pre-draft visit.
Sixth Round, Pick #179 – Karl Brooks, DT, Bowling Green
Gutekunst saw a dominant player in the realm of small college competition. An astounding 68 quarterback pressures last season, third among all FBS schools. 17.5 sacks and 46 tackles for loss during his college career. Packers are definitely putting an emphasis on rushing the passer with this draft. If his talent holds up at the NFL level, Green Bay has a gem here. Director of Football Operations Milt Hendrickson said that, at times, Brooks was “a man among boys.” Mel Kiper thought he was a second to third round talent. CHTV had him ranked twelfth among DL’s, three spots ahead of Colby Wooden, taken in round four. Good depth at the very least along the defensive line.
Sixth Round, Pick #207 – Anders Carlson, K, Auburn
Stop me if you’ve heard this before, but here is another prospect with injury history. Carlson tore an ACL in 2021, and then missed three games last year with a shoulder problem. Still, he went 12 of 17 in field goals last season and missed just three extra points in a five year stint as the Tigers’ kicker.
The Packers have to bid a sad good-bye to their all time leading scorer, Mason Crosby. Hate to see him go, but he is a 3 to 5 million dollar specialist and Green Bay just can’t afford him. The Packers would love to see Carlson win the place kicking job in a training camp battle with undrafted free agent Parker White. He would have to adjust to kicking in the cold weather and he needs to be better from 50 yards plus, having made only 5 of 17 from more than 50. Special teams boss Rich Bisaccia coached his older brother Daniel in Las Vegas and got to know Anders, apparently recommending him.
Seventh Round, Pick #232 – Carrington Valentine, CB, Kentucky
With four picks in the final round, the Packers started throwing darts at the board, hoping to find a special teams contributor and maybe the rare lightning in a bottle pick like Donald Driver. The team looks for athleticism that might have some upside. The first try was Valentine, whose college stats are just okay. If you’re wondering, he doesn’t project as a safety. Strictly a corner.
Seventh Round, Pick #235 – Lew Nichols III, RB, Central Michigan
Gutekunst understands that running back is a sneaky need on this team. Hard to see enough money to re-sign AJ Dillon next year, and Aaron Jones is not getting any younger. Nichols had a monster junior year but a toe injury scuttled his last season. Not much to lose with this selection. If he can cover kicks they may keep him on the final roster, hoping he shows more with the ball in his hands than Tyler Goodson or Patrick Taylor.
Seventh Round, Pick #242 – Anthony Johnson, Safety, Iowa State
Gutekunst finally addresses the one hole on his team that he hasn’t gotten around to. The best news for Johnson is that the safety position is wide open at the moment. The Packers are trying to create competition with this pick. They don’t want Darnell Savage and Rudy Ford to be their only options. Johnson has some credentials. Second team all Big 12, and 30 PBU’s. He played corner for four seasons before switching to safety last year. Unlike most selections in this draft class, Johnson has been pretty durable, having started every game the last four seasons.
Seventh Round, Pick #256 – Grant DuBose, WR, Charlotte
More competition in the receiver room. Gutekunst likes his height and his fight for the contested catch. Raw as green bananas, struggles to get off of press coverage. But might be a weapon in the red zone on fades to the corner. Sean Clifford will throw to him a lot in the preseason. He also returns punts.
SUMMARY
Gutekunst took a lot of risk with this draft. He went with a collection of highly athletic and speedy players, several of whom struggled with injuries in college. He sees a mountain of upside with this group. If he’s right, and the staff can coach them up, this could be a very productive class. It could also be a class that implodes with injury and under performance. Gutekunst has his formula, and he’s sticking with it. He is not influenced by public pressure or media hype. For that at least, he is to be appreciated.
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Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.
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Comments (149)
Savage57
May 01, 2023 at 06:19 am
My draft crystal ball was shattered many years ago.
Your closing sentences are the important ones. A good captain sets a heading, and sticks with it. No one wants to crew a wandering ship.
May his picks be wise, their performance remarkable, their durability lasting and their fingers eventually adorned with rings.
Lootstone
May 01, 2023 at 09:14 am
It's an interesting draft, and you can Reed what the intentions were for the picks. They want fast WRs and reliable safety net TEs for Love. Granted, I think this is smart in terms of where Love's skill set is at right now. Love has developed beautifully in the pocket, so getting the ball out early may be exactly what we need.
However, I worry this game plan is all to predictable. Press on Doubs/Reed, cushion on Watson may or may not be kryptonite. The two TE will add a level of utility to coverage reads, and I think this is where coach Matt becomes our MVP now. Anything is possible with the right scheme. It's not a scheme I wanted to see, but I admit my scheme wasn't focused around Love as the center piece, so maybe that was my error. A couple years to decide if I should be upset or not lol.
One thing is for sure. We didn't trade up for anything and I wonder if that's because we cared more about throwing as many darts at the board as possible, hoping something hits, rather than aiming for our guy. Probably what caused the panic QB pick. Tanner would of been just fine in comparison... I'm just worried if it showed that we don't know 100% what we are doing in terms of a game plan. When Matt says, "we'll see what we got," yup, we'll see.
greengold
May 01, 2023 at 12:06 pm
Savage, again bringing his A-Game!!!
I found this little note interesting from Connor Orr at Sports Illustrated:
“ Life after Rodgers:
I think people may be sleeping a bit on the strength of the Packers’ draft class. My favorite part was doubling down on the tight end position with the Day 2 additions of Luke Musgrave & Tucker Kraft, who will truly diversify this front while helping Matt LaFleur reinvest in the running game. These are big, rangy pass catchers who can block, stretch the field and increase the yardage after the catch in the quick game. I don’t know whether this is necessarily the kind of formational feel Rodgers would have liked. But now that he’s gone, the Packers can fortify Jordan Love and hand him the pieces on offense that can force opposing defenses into base looks.”
Pretty cool.
MnBadger1
May 01, 2023 at 06:24 am
Ken- good stuff. I would say your comment about AJ Dillon is interesting. The Packers should have plenty of ways to structure a salary if AJ plays well enough to be offered one. He is not likely to be a high $ rb unless this season he explodes. I could see a 3 year 15 mil deal for him being max market. If so…I think he is back.
murf7777
May 01, 2023 at 07:15 am
I agree Dillon probably won’t break the bank. That said, I’m not a proponent of spending large amount of cap on a 2nd contract for a RB. They can be found in the mid rounds and normally are very good as a rookie so development time is virtually nonexistent.
PearlyBakerBest
May 01, 2023 at 08:15 am
It’ll be interesting to see him being used in the way he was drafted for with a qb actually running the offense as designed.
LambeauPlain
May 01, 2023 at 11:57 am
Hopefully more of : "That was not the play I called Jordan...stay with the plan! I don't want to see that again!"
VS
"OK, I see what you did there Aaron. Makes sense. Too bad it missed there. Next time."
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 11:06 am
Yeah Dillon will get a 2nd contract. Dude is the epitome of what it means to be a Packer. Loves the team, loves the area, is raising his family there, etc. Hes not going anywhere. Hes just entering his prime.
jannesbjornson
May 01, 2023 at 11:07 am
Not a priority to resign.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 12:19 pm
Yes he is. Especially with Jones turning 30 next year.
NickPerry
May 01, 2023 at 06:26 am
When you look at this draft as a whole, especially the first 4 picks, I TOTALY get what Gutekunst is doing and actually like it. Yes, I wanted JSN but I get the Van Ness Pick, especially when you look at rounds 2 and 3. It could be argued Edge was every bit the need TE, S, or WR was. Van Ness a solid, SOLID pick. Just not as sexy as JSN.
Starting with Musgrave, ending with Kraft, with Reed in-between, THIS was the best part of the draft for me, and why the Van Ness pick in the 1st makes so much sense. I don't care about any of the injuries because none of them were very severe IIRC. All of these dudes produced in college and when you look at them as a group, they all make sense and you're dead inside if these guys don't get you excited.
The one I barked at the most was Reed but after I realized why the production dropped in 2022, I was stoked. In THIS offense, with Love as QB Reed makes a ton of sense. Every report you read, every tape you look at, give this kid an inch and he is GONE. I love this pick more and more with each passing day. The possibilities are endless. If Corners play off with Watson and Reed, those one step read and throw passes for Jordan Love just became a hell of a lot more fun to watch.
#HOUSECALL!!!
murf7777
May 01, 2023 at 07:21 am
NP…I liked JSN, but was concerned it would be too high in the draft and could get WR in the 2nd. Also, was concerned about soft tissue hammy injury that might reoccur in the future. I had the same feeling about Reed, but then watched the tape and read the profiles and realized we just got JSN in the late 2nd. Also, by trading down twice they got Brooks, who just might be a big steal and a 6th rounder, not sure which player. Yes, I’m excited! GPG
NickPerry
May 01, 2023 at 11:06 am
"Also, by trading down twice they got Brooks, who just might be a big steal and a 6th rounder, not sure which player. Yes, I’m excited! GPG"
Exactly murf7777... Brooks is one of my favorite picks. Forget that he played at a small school, the dude was an Edge defender at what, 6'2" 302 pounds! They played him all over. Obviously he's a DT for the Packers most of the time, but this kid was a steal...
Wicks was the other kid they got with the 2nd round trades. LOOK at his production in 2021...#BEAST!
He's exactly what the Packers look for in a WR and is another WR who excels at contested catches and catches along the sideline. They change the offense in 2022 so he didn't put up great numbers.. I say GREAT, because we just got him with a late round pick.
murf7777
May 01, 2023 at 12:21 pm
That's crazy to think they got Wicks and Brooks for moving down twice only 5 spots. Now, that's stealing.
ReaganRulz
May 01, 2023 at 07:35 am
Yeah, watching Reed’s film from the Senior Bowl makes me really excited about what he can offer. I’ve always thought we needed a quick shifty alternative to our other bigger receivers.
TKWorldWide
May 01, 2023 at 07:43 am
Same here.
Basketball team, per MLF.
RCPackerFan
May 01, 2023 at 08:20 am
"Yes, I wanted JSN but I get the Van Ness Pick, especially when you look at rounds 2 and 3"
When you look at how the draft fell I feel much better about getting Van Ness in round 1 and then Reed in round 2 rather then going after JSN in round 1 and the following Edge players in round 2.
When the Packers were on the board in round 2 these were the next Edge players taken. Keion White (round 2 pick 46), Zach Harrision (round 3 pick 75), Bryan Young (round 3, pick 77).
Between the Packers round 1 pick and round 2 pick there were 7 Edge players that went off the board.
I am definitely happy they went the way they did with picks.
LambeauPlain
May 01, 2023 at 11:13 am
Just because Reed is "just" 5' 11", many label him a slot receiver. Hold on. He, like Watson and likely Musgrave CAN play the slot, but unlike Cobb who lived there, I don't think he will. He can play all over the formation and is perfect for MLF's IOC offense.
He has so many similarities to Greg Jennings, and I won't list them all...but both earned their productive resumes catching passes on the perimeter. Both worked very diligently in college to hone route running to make their speed and quickness plain deadly.
Jennings was one of the most impeccable route runners I have ever watched: Quick and crisp in breaks and ran every route as drawn up, every time. Of all the similarities Reed has with Jennings, reading about his dedication to become a tactician in his route tree, was the most significant to me.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 01:32 pm
Reed was quietly one of the best receivers in this draft at beating press coverage. Thats an extremely important skill that will translate to the pros. Most size/speed freaks who bust in the NFL do so because they cant beat press. Reed is already really good at it. It also means he'll likely be able to get open regularly no matter where they line him up.
PackEyedOptimist
May 01, 2023 at 06:39 am
Good analysis, Ken.
I’m always astounded by all of the knee-jerk reactions on the first day or two after a draft. Every year we get the reasoning behind the picks within a day or two. This year it was even more true.
I agree with your final comment about Gutey rolling the dice with this draft. He went high ceiling-low floor on a LOT of these picks.
For now, I’m going to cross my fingers and hope for the best.
I always do my own real- time draft for the Packers, and this year I ended up with results that would have made me ecstatic a day before the draft, but which look terribly embarrassing in 20-20 hindsight: 13 C Gonzalez (went 4 later), 42 D Washington (51 later!), 50 G Dexter (3 later), 78 A Adebawore (32 later!), 116 AT Perry (195 later!), 149 A Carter (UDFA. WTF!), 159 T McGee (29 later!), 179 Z Kuntz (41 later!), 207 D McBride (15 later), 232 M Ojomo (17 later), 235 H Luepke (UDFA), 242 B Ford-Wheaton (UDFA), 256 L Phelps (UDFA)
Before the draft, AWESOME! After reality—Wow, I suck at this!
😃
HawkPacker
May 01, 2023 at 06:51 am
PEO, don't feel too bad.
We do not have the tools to properly evaluate the talent and quite frankly a lot of the prognosticators don't either. And that is one reason there are so many widely different opinions on players.
I do like looking at someone's picks to a certain extent but do not do my own draft.
If I did, I would pick all of the players that I have/had read about which really does not make a lot of common sense as far as the draft goes.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 11:12 am
What many fans dont factor in with their "expert analysis" is what kind of people these kids are. Packers have always put a heavy price on character. If theres a handful of guys at the same position with similar grades, Packers are drafting the one whos character has the least red flags. It cant be quantiified on film or with combine numbers. Yes there are some exceptions (like Devonte Wyatt last year), but not many. You dont see them drafting guys like Aaron Hernandez, who have 1st round talent but fall to the 4th due to major character flaws. Theres a really good chance many of the draft crushes fans have that get passed on, were passed on due to character. Had Jalen Carter fallen to #13, I have zero doubts Packers wouldve passed on him too. It was reported even his own coaches at Georgia couldnt stand him.
davekenya
May 01, 2023 at 12:33 pm
The draft is certainly an organized, researched crap-shoot -- which is probably why it's so fun to watch -- so many moving pieces...and it's fun (and head scratching) to try to figure out what some teams are/were thinking!
About 7 years ago I started keeping (and synthesizing) pre-draft VALUE ratings of players getting drafted. Then, a few years later, I see how the draft picks turn out as players. This allows me to get a better idea of which 'prognosticators' more accurately assess draft pick value over time and drafts. I give them more stock, then, in what they say about an upcoming draft and a draftee's value.
I don't try to predict (or evaluate how well prognosticators predict) what teams will choose what player when. Who cares? What's more important is whether a team successfully drafts the most talent and value. Besides, guessing who will get drafted by my team in round xyz is too fluid -- trades happen that take away players my team would have taken otherwise...and drop players into my team's lap that they now pick that they didn't think they'd be able to. It's just too dynamic.
stockholder
May 01, 2023 at 07:09 am
We get the reasons. BUT-
Too many good players fell.
The rich got Richer.
So I'm going to get right to it.
The Reed pick was a Reach.
Not the position.
Rashee Rice went shortly after.
A better pick with durability.
And thats what A GM never should do.
Give the better, more gifted player, to
the enemy.
We saw it with Humphrey and Myers.
And now we got another dose of it this draft.
As much as I liked this draft.
Gutey took a 5th rounder.
Losing value and blowing the value of a
Second rd. Pick.
ReaganRulz
May 01, 2023 at 07:39 am
It’s hard to make your predictions. Shoulda woulda coulda…nobody will know the final results until they put on the pads and see what happens. Players will always surprise and disappoint. We’ve got what we’ve got and lets cheer them on!!
davekenya
May 01, 2023 at 12:40 pm
Great comments -- I completely agree. Humans differ in how they process information. Some will pick up a donut and eat it and say 'yum - delicious, I'm going to enjoy this!' while some will pick up the same donut and say 'hmm...this is good...but could be better with these sprinkles on it instead...or I'm going to set this donut down and choose a danish instead.' There's no right/wrong....some people just look to evaluate/assess more than others. Hearing others' perspectives can be enlightening and help us each grow; especially if those differing perspectives are shared constructively, IMHO.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 11:14 am
SH why arent you working for an NFL team? Clearly you know so much that the professionals who spend 18 hours a day away from their families do not. Seriously, the NFL is missing out.
jannesbjornson
May 01, 2023 at 11:26 am
Still would have moved down for Felix and scored another pick. Reed is probably quicker than Rice, 4.37 guy vs. 4.5, but I get your drift, a productive WR from an Air Raid offense. They were looking for a dynamic PR to go along with his ability to work the hook zones, coming from a more Pro style offense vs. Big Ten competition. They needed Reed's prototype after blowing the Amari Rodgers pick. Reed is not a stiff. Never confuse this group with Adam Veach. He bagged pass rush on schedule with Karlaftis and Chenal last year, jettisoned Clark and drafted Uzomah. Quality Control. Pack just had a bad break with Gary injured on Detroit's shit playing surface.
P.S. You know I would have taken Tillman over both of these guys...
stockholder
May 01, 2023 at 01:11 pm
Still hate the pick. I watched Reed enough to know
he won't be the game breaker we think.
People here think he's Desmond Howard.
Even Andre Bad Moon Risen.
When will the Packers learn not to draft Mich. State players?
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 01:35 pm
You dont know that no matter how much you've convinced yourself of it. Reed was one of the best in this draft at beating press. A damn good argument could be made that this single trait alone is the biggest indicator of future success in the NFL. But of course he wasnt one of your draft crushes so he automatically sucks.
jannesbjornson
May 01, 2023 at 03:54 pm
Not a long strider, in and out of his cuts to find the holes in the zones. Good YAC, will make guys miss, hunts the first down marker, like Lazard did for ISU. Move the chains. Yes, a better WR than Desmond who was a deep ball catcher who didn't match his Michigan production. Different periods of Football. Different Rules. Wouldn't kick Kenneth Walker off this team.
murf7777
May 01, 2023 at 07:09 am
Thoughts on the Packer draft:
Karl Brooks is my sleeper, steal pick of the Packers draft. The Packers are going to put some serious pressure onto QB’s in 2023. Wicks is a close second, the man has footwork like Adams and should have no problem getting open quickly. Oh wait, he has drop issues, I would say that is something that can be fixed. Just ask Watson who got much better as a rookie.
Pick I’m most excited to watch. LVN and Jayden Reed; I’m hoping LVN will perform quicker than Gary. He may have to because of Gary’s injury. His quickness and initial punch is lethal. Don’t understand how Hercules had so few lifts at the combine. Putting 60lbs onto his frame as a freshman is freakish. Reed, might end up being my favorite player. Might have the Packers stuck gold with a 2nd round WR again? I Love his athletic, twitchy, sudden quickness. He is very fast. The Packer pro scout timed him at 4.37. Wouldn’t surprise me to see him starting as our slot WR in year one.
Questionable, as most on this board, the QB and Kicker. That said, I’m happy they took both positions in this draft, just don’t know if they’re the right ones. Regarding QB, I think as Cory stated the run in the 4th probably took their preferred QB.
Can’t wait to see a two TE set where both can get open and create mismatches.
RCPackerFan
May 01, 2023 at 08:28 am
"Karl Brooks is my sleeper, steal pick of the Packers draft. The Packers are going to put some serious pressure onto QB’s in 2023."
I really like the 3 front 7 players they added. They added some juice to the front. I feel like we could have a much better pass rush from the interior this year.
"I’m hoping LVN will perform quicker than Gary."
I feel like he has to. When Gary was drafted they had the Smith Bros. Now they have an older Preston, and Enagbare who was coming off an ok rookie year. I like Enagbare, but we don't know how he will develop in year 2. And Gary coming off a torn acl likely will not be a factor early in the year. So I feel like Van Ness will have more opportunities to contribute early.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 11:15 am
Getting strong Mike Daniels vibes from Brooks. Excellent pick.
stockholder
May 01, 2023 at 01:29 pm
He should of been a 5th rd. pick after
the senior Bowl.
The only reason he went to the 6th was;
he was in a lesser Division.
AND Didn't kill it on his pro day.
Most teams had No need for D5.
Even Adebawore dropped. And Gutey passed.
He was being Hyped for rd.1 in the 30s.
Which is why the NFL is a copy cat way.
Teams are going back to the bigger/taller 4 front.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 01:38 pm
Brooks didnt fall to the 7th. He was the 2nd pick in the 6th round.
jannesbjornson
May 01, 2023 at 09:17 pm
Put Karl in Rd Four where DTs belong.
davekenya
May 01, 2023 at 12:44 pm
I don't want to over-hype Brooks, but that looks like a great pick. And, for round 6 -- how can you go wrong if for some reason he doesn't succeed?
Anders the kicker more a head-scratcher to me. I get the injur(ies) being considered. But more concerning to me is that he was ...what.. 5 for 17 in FGs made beyond 50 yards. Is that somehow correctable? Apparently so. (We better hope!)
GregC
May 01, 2023 at 07:14 am
Nice overview of the draft and the thinking behind it. None of the injuries seem like the kind that are likely to recur. The player they famously passed on, Jaxon Smith-Njigba, missed most of last season with a hamstring injury, which is something that does tend to recur, so I was glad they passed on him. It was odd how the TV coverage the draft downplayed that injury to the point of barely even mentioning it.
I'm a little worried about the drop histories of the top two wide receivers they picked. It's not as bad as J'Mon Moore, who was benched in college for dropping too many passes and was not able to master catching the ball in the NFL, but it is a concern. I will expect a lot of drops early on, but they will need to get that figured out. Jayden Reed could be a really good player. A bigger receiver would've been nice with a high draft pick, but with so many undersized receivers this year, I guess Gutey decided to just roll with it. It was the Year of the Slot Receiver, apparently.
Coldworld
May 01, 2023 at 09:19 am
Wicks is much worse than Moore’s actually: 23.1% as against 13.2%, which was high to start off with. You are correct that Reed’s is within normal parameters, as is Dubose’s.
GregC
May 01, 2023 at 09:29 am
Worse than Moore's, yikes! Let's hope it's fixable. Maybe related to the new offense last year and being out of sync with the QB? I'm hoping it's something like that.
murf7777
May 01, 2023 at 12:55 pm
I believe that information came from Fantasypros....CW, maybe you could confirm that. I just looked at NFL.com draft profile and it stated he had 14 drops over the last two years. He had 87 catches, so there is no way that translates into 23% or even close. I couldn't find anything else about how many throws to catches for a catch percentage or anything other than the fantasypros stating a drop percentage.
That might be bogus info from them.
Coldworld
May 01, 2023 at 02:07 pm
It’s from various sources Cross checked to ensure no typo and limited only to those employing the same metric. That wasn’t one. It may have been one others used, but ultimately it’s the stats the conference keeps. I tried to use the same metric for all references to catch percentage on my various posts, as each scores differently. The only valid comparison is between like metrics therefore. It’s not a perfect absolute count but it’s a decent comparative.
Here’s one summary, this one from SI.com:
“ Analytical stats: Of 104 receivers in the 2023 draft class to be targeted at least 50 times in the passing game, he ranked 88th with 1.45 yards per route run and last with a drop rate of 23.1 percent. He was 3-of-14 in contested-catch opportunities and caught 5-of-21 passes thrown 20-plus yards downfield. He forced a missed tackle on 27 percent of his catches and averaged 4.1 yards after the catch. He ran 12 unique routes and went deep 47 percent of the time, which ranked 28th and seventh, respectively, among SIS’s top 48 receiver prospects.”
The best comparison I found that
collated, it covers multiple receivers with identical metrics, including that one, in detail, including Reed and Wicks is here: https://steelersdepot.com/2023/03/2023-draft-wr-prospects-pff-grades-and...
There’s no doubt that, if Wicks could catch, he’s a talent. He’s incredibly hard to cover. However, he also had drop issues at Senior Bowl practice.
murf7777
May 02, 2023 at 07:55 am
CW…thanks for the info. There certainly are some concerning stats on there. I’d be interested in seeing how that data from PFF from prior years and see if they have a lot of validity. Wick definitely has a boom or bust label. If he followed up his junior year to his senior it seems like he could’ve been a 2nd rounder. The reality is he didn’t so there are looming questions on him. Fingers crossed. Nice thing is it was an extra pick from the trade down in the 2nd where the Packers seem to still get their man in Reed.
murf7777
May 01, 2023 at 12:29 pm
The drop rate concerns me as that is a lot, I believe it was the highest percentage. I believe I found the information you received that from. They also stated this about him.
"Wicks ranked sixth among all FBS wide receivers in deep targets (37.6% of his target volume), 14th in deep receiving yards and 24th in deep passer rating when targeted (minimum 15 deep targets, 124.7)."
The big question, can they teach catching the ball better? I believe they can. What would be harder to teach would be the high volume of deep receptions he accomplished.
That said, due to the dropsies the pick could be called a boom or bust. With 13 picks why not go for that type of player thou.........Hoping for the BOOM!!
davekenya
May 01, 2023 at 12:49 pm
I learned to catch better by learning juggling balls. The thinking was that (in juggling) you only see the ball for a split second...and at different parts of your peripheral vision. You need to quickly catch and control the ball (in juggling) in a very short time. And that these were transferable skills to learning to catch a football better -- seeing the ball from many different angles and just for a split second. Well, it sure helped me anyway!
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 09:38 am
DuBose and Wicks have more typical Packers size for the WR position. Neither is a burner, but DuBose's 10-yard and 3-cone numbers were really good.
Coldworld
May 01, 2023 at 09:59 am
Wicks’ testing is dubious, his early splits are great, but he hurt his hip mid run. He wasn’t fully healthy at his pro day. He’s faster than his metrics in terms of long speed, I have no doubt of that, and his initial burst is great. He is very poor at contested catches though and he’s not great on deep balls—supposedly his stock in trade.
I’ve been back and rewatched him. I don’t see him overcoming his hand/eye issues I saw the first time around. I also don’t see toughness—except, oddly, as a blocker. He could improve his routes and thus position on balls, but when his hands go up it’s a lottery even when he gets that right. His catching did get worse in the new offense in his final year, but it was J’mon bad before.
Athletically, other than the fact that after his initial burst, he’s very much a long strider like MVS, Wicks looks like he ought to be a superstar. When he catches it, he’s got a huge radius, he will break tackles, just looks like he’s got it all, until those hands come into play.
I really think he’s a prototypical athlete who just isn’t a natural catcher. That doesn’t mean he can’t look great making a catch, sometimes he does, but it’s not the norm and just deceives on highlight reels. That’s something I recall from J’mon—the spectacular highlight catch interspersed in a cluster of awful drops.
I’d love it to click for him. He had nearly all the tools. I just can’t find a way to persuade myself that it will. I think he’s going to find it difficult to make this roster. Sadly I think we got this one wrong. I will happily eat crow if not, because he’d be the ideal second perimeter athlete, but the more I dig, the less I believe that is going to be the outcome.
murf7777
May 01, 2023 at 12:59 pm
If he is poor at contested catches than how did he achieve 14th best in deep passing receiving yards? Surely, many of those had to be contested.
Here's a quote from Draft network
"Wicks has top-tier ball skills and his ability to locate, track, and adjust to the football in the air is outstanding. He has shown the ability to dominate in contested situations and his quarterback has no reservations about “throwing it up” to him. His body control is terrific."
There are other quotes about his ability to contort his body and catch contested passes. Look at pro football network as another example.
Coldworld
May 01, 2023 at 06:52 pm
He’s not lacking wingspan or agility. He’s just not good at bringing them in. 3 of 14 last year. If you want more in depth analysis, see the link I posted above (on Reed too).
murf7777
May 01, 2023 at 12:50 pm
Wicks averaged 21 ypc in 2021. Those number came down to 14.3 ypc in 2022 for some reason. He must have better speed than what his combine numbers showed. This is a quote from FantasyPros.
"He possesses immediate acceleration off the line. Wicks consistently stacks corners downfield with speed releases. He does exhibit some body-catching, but his ball-tracking downfield has been stellar."
In watching his tape his first 10 yards are explosive. He will have a harder time against NFL CB's I'd admit, but there is big time potential. I Love the speed, but juking defenders can be more effective than just speed.
ReaganRulz
May 01, 2023 at 07:47 am
I would guess that the Packer’s medical staff did a good once-over with any of these guys that have had injuries. The worrisome part is that if they are “injury prone” to future injuries. It sounds like Musgrave looked great at the Senior Bowl which is positive news.
On Wicks, I do worry about him learning the offense. They say his dip in production last year was due to not picking up a new offense. And the NFL playbooks are x 10 in complexity. His highlights look great but these are always cherry picked.
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 08:25 am
Many of the kinds of injuries they talk about are contact injuries and no more likely to recur as they were to occur in the first place. I think Wicks had a lisfranc injury, though, and those can be worrisome.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 11:29 am
During draft day coverage, Nagler and one of his guests had an interesting convo that relates to this. NFL front offices will grade guys with injuries based on what doctors performed their surgeries. Something I had never considered before.
davekenya
May 01, 2023 at 01:11 pm
This is very interesting. Had not considered this either. NFL research shows that drafting college players with injury histories is risky. in that while there are clear success stories there are far more failure stories.
Sidenote: Regarding TE Washington and his foot injury history...it would be interesting how GB's war room reached conclusion on whether he was a good risk to draft (injury-wise) or not:
TE Gronk has college injury risk (back) and has similar body type as Washington and plays same position...so is Washington an acceptable draft risk ... or b/c the injuries are so different (foot vs. back) that it was irrelevant to try to compare the two. I'm sure discussions on this topic ensued. Nonetheless, it will be interesting to follow Washington and see which side of the boom or bust continuum he falls on...
Good:
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 01:43 pm
I think there was more than just the medical red flags with Washington. All of Georgia's top prospects fell further than expected. Too much smoke around that team. Character concerns all around. It was reported even Georgia's own coaches had nothing good to say when asked about Jalen Carter during the predraft process. Just look at last year. We took Walker and Wyatt and after their rookie seasons it was clear they both had maturity issues. I think the NFL gm's noticed the trend and decided not to pay as high of a price for these guys. Gute definitely put a premium on high character guys as not a single one of their 13 draft picks have any character red flags that Im aware of. Its pretty remarkable when you think about it.
LambeauPlain
May 01, 2023 at 12:14 pm
And VA shut down the season a few games early due to the on campus murders, too. So even if he was getting acclimated to the the new O, he couldn't show anything late season to change the "bust" projections.
The relative cost for Wicks is low. The potential ROI could be huge. I am pulling for the young man, imaging him joining Reed, Watson, Doubs, Musgrave and Kraft to create prolific results for the sake of Love.
TKWorldWide
May 01, 2023 at 07:53 am
Sneaky need at RB: totally agree.
Watch that YouTube clip (link posted in another thread, sorry, don’t remember which one) on Reed. You will quickly find yourself becoming a big fan.
Would love to hear an honest appraisal of how they view their safety situation now. I’m guessing they feel better about their in-house options than most fans do.
PeteK
May 01, 2023 at 08:34 am
Nichols 1,800 yds, 5.4, 16 TDs in junior year. wow
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 09:31 am
40 catches, too.
Coldworld
May 01, 2023 at 10:23 am
Half his career yards after first contact, that’s the standout feat. Used as Dillon has been, a total waste. Another sign that the offense is changing.
LambeauPlain
May 01, 2023 at 12:19 pm
I am expecting more plays being run as called within the IOC objectives and far less RPO, constant audibles pre snap, and never again, in my remaining earthly existence, ever see AJD taking a handoff from the frogging shotgun!
Guam
May 01, 2023 at 08:00 am
Was this a good draft by Gute? We will know a lot more in three years. We will know which picks worked out and which didn't and which players should have been taken instead of the ones that were (and StarrtoRodgers will remind us of every miss that Gute made, ad infinitum, ad nauseum).
Right now I look forward the beginning of new era in Packer history with a young QB and receiving core; a head coach and DC with much to prove; and a front office working to fix their "all-in" cap mess. 2023 should be very interesting in so many ways.
jannesbjornson
May 01, 2023 at 11:40 am
The first thing we will know is who survives the Cut in year one. See if they bring in some veterans at the end of Summer Session. Some have the light come on by mid-season. Usually, you see some traits show up. If they stagnate in year two, time for deep thought.
LambeauPlain
May 01, 2023 at 12:26 pm
13 picks will ensure a few misses. But in 3 years from now, if 6 or 7 are starters, key contributors or solid depth players, that will be an A...especially if Gutey finally drafted a 3rd rounder that is a solid success (Reed) after trading down twice to get two more prospects...Brooks and Wicks... who are also solid contributors.
And this may also be the year and draft class that began to slay the Cap Monster.
murf7777
May 01, 2023 at 03:46 pm
Of the 13, 8 of them were 5th - 7th rounders. I think if you had 5 starters a few years from now that would be a good draft. Maybe, a role player or two as well.
davekenya
May 01, 2023 at 01:18 pm
Wow, Guam...impressive to be providing big-picture perspective so close to the end of the draft while many of us still have our heads in details. Kudos!
We really need to tamper expectations and hopes this year. MLF will finally be running his offense. Love 1st year starter. WRs very young - even 2nd year returners are still learning audible routes to be running. Playbook will need to be simplified for the rookie WRs that will get snaps. There will be miscommunications and frustrations. BUT...it's a transition year. And the team may still do very well. It will be refreshing in a number of ways to watch a more mobile QB run an offense where he's not expected to be the centerpiece for success.
RCPackerFan
May 01, 2023 at 08:11 am
First Round, Pick #13 – Lukas Van Ness, Edge, Iowa
I like this pick. I like that they didn't force the WR or TE in a spot. The part I like about Van Ness is that he can be used all over the front. He can go inside and play outside. With Gary likely not playing right away, they had a need for more Edge help. But also Smith is nearing the end of his time in GB. Enagbare and Hollins will definitely be contributors, but Van Ness will be able to come in and play right away. Similar to Gary when he was drafted, Van Ness is far from a finished product. He will only get better. You can't teach his size, speed and strength.
Second Round, Pick #42 – Luke Musgrave, TE, Oregon State
This is exactly what GB needed. A TE who can be a vertical threat. Musgrave has the ability to stretch the seam and that has been missing in our offense since 2020. He can block, but as every rookie there is always room to improve. What I like about this pick is they got a big TE that can run. It will open up plays for Watson and Doubs outside.
Second Round, Pick #50 – Jayden Reed, WR, Michigan State
A lot of people didn't like this pick. A lot of people hated that Gutey traded down twice and ended up taking Reed with the pick. First I personally love that they traded down twice. By them trading down twice they were able to get 2 additional players. Those picks turned into Wicks and Brooks.
All I keep hearing about is how Reed went earlier then expected. I don't care about that part as much. What I care about is the player. And I really like the player. He is fast and he is ellusive. He has some great route running ability and has the ability to get open. We will see how he fits in GB's offense but I think he could be a tremendous fit with Watson and Doubs. He has an attack the ball type of attitude. A lot of people compared him to Stephon Diggs, and I would agree with that comparison.
Third Round, Pick #78 – Tucker Kraft, TE, South Dakota State
I love the doubling up at TE with Kraft. While he is coming from a small school and may take some time to develop, he should be able to contribute early. I really like the way he plays. Kraft feels like he will me more of the inline TE where Musgrave feels more like the TE they will split out more often. But they can move them around. I really, really like doubling up the TE's. This draft class was a strength at TE and the Packers came away with 2 of the best ones.
Fourth Round, Pick #116 – Colby Wooden, DL, Auburn
What I really like about Wooden is he isn't the normal 6'2 300+ lbs DL the Packers seem to take a lot. Wooden is a guy that has some quickness and can get in the backfield in a hurry. He also plays with power. He can be moved around and should give our Defensive front more options. Wooden doesn't have to be a starter right away, but likely will be a key rotational piece.
Fifth Round, Pick #149 – Sean Clifford, QB, Penn State
Packers needed a QB to back up Love. This was kind of a weird draft where we had Kickers and QB's going a lot earlier then expected. We will see what Clifford can be at QB and whether he will be the backup or if they will bring a veteran in. But a 5th round pick on a backup QB, is not a bad thing. We will see what Clifford can do in LaFleurs offense.
Fifth Round, Pick #159 – Dontayvion Wicks, WR, Virginia
Wicks is an intriguing WR. Right now they have Watson and Doubs as the top 2 guys. Behind them they have Toure and Melton. Then they drafted Reed, and now Wicks. There will be a lot of opportunities for Wicks to be a key contributor to the offense. He has the ability to make big plays. I like how he uses his hands to catch. He isn't a body catcher. I really like this pick especially beings this was a bonus pick with the 2nd round trade down pick.
Sixth Round, Pick #179 – Karl Brooks, DT, Bowling Green
The 2nd pick in the trade down with 2nd round pick. Packers traded down 5 spots in the 2nd round and picked up 2 additional players. First was Wicks 2nd was Brooks. I really like this pick. To me this was a really good value pick. CBS Sports had him as the 67th ranked player. He is a pass rushing DT that could be moved around. Putting Wooden and Brooks on our DL definitely helps the depth out. We have a strong rotation and both these guys should be a part of the rotation.
Sixth Round, Pick #207 – Anders Carlson, K, Auburn
We will see where Carlson ends up after training camp. I can see him being our kicker and I could see us looking at someone else. I was expecting them to go kicker, but was shocked that 2 guys went as early they did. I thought 5th- 6th round, not 3rd-4th.
Seventh Round, Pick #232 – Carrington Valentine, CB, Kentucky
I feel like this was a good value. He was on top of Mel Kipers top players available for a long time. Not that that means anything, but it shows that others felt he was worth a higher pick. Good pick.
Seventh Round, Pick #235 – Lew Nichols III, RB, Central Michigan
RB was a spot they needed to add to the position. I like Goodson a lot and Taylor has played well overall. But they needed more depth. By not drafting a RB until the 7th round tells me they feel pretty good overall with where they are at RB.
Seventh Round, Pick #242 – Anthony Johnson, Safety, Iowa State
This was a good pick. Some felt he could have gone higher. He is a former CB that transitioned to S. He could be a guy that starts as a 7th round pick. Safety was a need but the Safety class was weak as a hole.
Seventh Round, Pick #256 – Grant DuBose, WR, Charlotte
DuBose is a major sleeper. He has good size and he catches the ball really well. He is worth taking a 7th round pick on. He could be a guy that emerges in the preseason. Also could be a special teams player with his size.
SUMMARY
I like this draft class. I feel like they have a lot of guys that are going to fill some major needs and depth. I like that they picked up extra picks. 13 picks is a lot but like they say. If you are going to bat .300 you might as well do it with more picks. At this point we have no clue who any of these guys careers will turn out. That is the beauty of the draft. But one thing we have to do is give each and everyone of these guys a chance! They are a Packer now and I can't be more excited.
BirdDogUni
May 01, 2023 at 08:52 am
Thank you for writing this! Now I am free to just say I agree with most, if not all your sentiments. You saved me at least 45 minutes, RC.
Excellent review IMO, which I share.
Thanks Again.
RCPackerFan
May 01, 2023 at 09:20 am
lmao. I wish you would have said it to save me 45 minutes lol.
thank you!
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 09:04 am
I really like the Wooden and Brooks picks, given where they got them. Scouts had varied opinions on them (both had very high rankings in some projections), but they were very productive college players.
As you said, Wooden is very much a break from the Packers' normal DL preferences, but creates a genuine opportunity if Barry can think outside the box on him some. Brooks fits their mold for DL, but seems to be the hyper-athletic disruptor (kind of like Wyatt) rather than a more traditional anchor type DT. Wooden might fit into the mix early on, but my guess is that Brooks will need a redshirt year to get stronger.
Maybe the take-home message here is that they expect to get something out of big, anchor-type reserves like Ford, Slaton, or Slayton, and felt they could go in different directions.
RCPackerFan
May 01, 2023 at 09:30 am
Brooks definitely may take a bit getting used to the talent level at the NFL. And maybe he will be a game day inactive some. That part is yet to be determined. But what I like is he dominated his level.
I just really like that they really went in to bolster their DL and they got 2 guys that I feel can be a really good part of the rotation.
I thought about that too. Slaton and Ford are big guys who could be the NT's. Also, I wonder how they feel about Ford. Do they feel his redshirt year made him better and he is ready to go this year? Or is he just a guy and won't make the 53 this year? I'm curious to see how they feel about him.
jannesbjornson
May 01, 2023 at 11:53 am
Brooks may end up starting for all we know. Not a one-year wonder. More reps than Van Ness on the rack with 28 compared to 17, Felix had 23. Quite a few MAC guys in the NFL, especially Linemen. I would hope LaFleur imparts the Message for Barry to get more Multiple, showing 4-2 looks with the big's hands in the turf. No worries regarding Karl.
MainePackFan
May 01, 2023 at 09:48 am
Good analysis RC. I predicted LVN would be our first pick because I thought JSN would be gone. Full disclosure, I wanted JSN but I'm glad they went LVN.
I didn't look closely at Jayden Reed because I thought he didn't fit the Packers thresholds. After researching him, I can see he is a slightly smaller, faster, more physical, cheaper version of JSN. Love the pick.
My immediate reaction to the 3rd round was disappointment mainly because of the Clifford/Carlson picks. However, further research has me much more optimistic, especially regarding Clifford and what they think he brings to the room.
I'd love to know if Gute would have taken Andrei Iosivas at #207 if he hadn't gone the pick before. I really like that dude. I was also surprised they didn't take Sean Tucker instead of Lew Nichols but no one else drafted Tucker so there is probably a reason for that.
Overall, I think this was very solid draft for the Packers and I can't wait to see how it plays out. GPG!!
Booner
May 01, 2023 at 08:45 am
How in world do you trade with the stinking Lions? They snag the best safety in the draft ? We could of had Gonzales in the first round teamed up with Alexander.
Brutal!
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 09:29 am
The Lions drafted like a team that was plugging in the last holes on a SB roster with guys who would have defined roles right away, not like a non-playoff team that has been one of the more enigmatic and erratic franchises in the NFL in our lifetimes. They passed on upside in return for stability. In this case, the "best S in the draft" will be their nickel/slot CB.
Draft the guys you need to make you better. You can't control what the other teams do.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 11:26 am
Best safety in a bad safety class is like being the tallest midget. Branch is a box safety/nickel type anyways which the Packers already have covered with Savage and Keesian Nixon. Remember this when Reed is destroying Branch on the field.
PeteK
May 01, 2023 at 08:46 am
Clifford ran the ball 400 times, caught 2 passes, 6' 2" 212, and improved every year. Let's not miss again, could he be the next Taysom Hill ?
HawkPacker
May 01, 2023 at 09:53 am
'could he be the next Taysom Hill ?'
So can fail to protect him so someone can steal him away?
Sorry, but I couldn't resist! But I still remember that and was not happy at the time.
Packerpasty
May 01, 2023 at 10:13 am
OMG now thats funny as hell...did you ever watch PSU play?? This dude is so mediocre...if you dont have arm strength by now you arent ever going to have it...PSU is not some div II school...they have a training program..
Coldworld
May 01, 2023 at 06:56 pm
He could be the new Etling
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 08:57 am
Big proponent of evaluating a draft when it's done and as a whole rather than pick by pick as it unfolds. Sometimes we fail to see forest and see only trees.
BG clearly had a plan for this draft: provide numbers to the pass-catchers and the defensive front, and ride what he's got most other places. The secondary and RB only got token help. No ILBs (who tend to be special teams fodder, too). QB is a longer-term project. When was the last time the Packers didn't draft an OL? 2015. Before that, 1998. The last time they didn't pick at least TWO OL was 2019 (Jenkins).
I think the take-home messages are...
1. the front office sees this retool as a multi-draft project. They weren't going to be able to address all their deficiencies adequately in a single draft--and maybe by spreading picks out might have done very little good at all. Instead decided to hit a smaller number spots with bodies to see what sticks.
2. they will have draft capital available in 2024 to hit other positions of need, or positions that emerge as needs in 2023, that might have better prospects available (S, OT, RB)
3. the optimist will say they like and trust their depth enough at some positions--ILB, OL, CB, RB--to not add talent there. The pessimist will say that they've dumped enough capital and cap there over the last few years that they're forced to ride the players they have as they try to fix other holes. When you remove 2, 12, and 89, this becomes one of the youngest teams in the league.
4. with two day 2 picks at TE and the departures of Tonyan and Lewis, they'll be emphasizing different parts of the playbook from what we've seen in the last couple years, but don't be surprised if the amount of 11 personnel actually increases early in the season as those guys get their feet wet. I wouldn't be surprised to see them keep a 5th TE out of camp (or sign a low-cost vet who's more of a blocking specialist and jettison Davis) to help stabilize the position early on. Deguara is on the clock.
5. they might be looking for a low-cost vet to add to the S and QB rooms, yet, but they're fully committed to 10 for 2023.
6. the Packers were more interested in finding a developmental QB who has it right between the ears and would set the right tone in the QB room than would be competition for 10. The Packers have a good QB coach, though, and Clifford might surprise some people, yet (Doug Pederson?).
7. Samori Toure and Bo Melton will need to win their roster spots in 2023. The Packers have kept 5-6 WR out of camp in recent years, and they just drafted 3.
Since'61
May 01, 2023 at 09:17 am
Dobber this is the best comment that I have read yet on the Packers 2023 draft class. Excellent and thoughtful points which I fully agree with. I see that we were both writing our respective posts at the same time. You finished ahead of me. Great job as always from your posts. Box of cookies for you! Thanks, Since '61
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 09:41 am
"You finished ahead of me. "
I've never been referred to as an over-achiever!
Since'61
May 01, 2023 at 12:34 pm
Now you have reached yet another milestone. Thanks, Since '61
Coldworld
May 01, 2023 at 09:46 am
If you don’t have experience, you must have competition and some candidates for the PS among that. Other than Reed, Watson and Doubs, I think it’s a straight fight, no favorites. I think all could make the PS. Personally, I think Toure will prove better than Wicks and that Melton and Wicks are going to have to show that they can catch consistently to get in the fight. If Melton can, he’s going to be hard to overlook though, even though we didn’t pick him.
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 09:58 am
"Other than Reed, Watson and Doubs, I think it’s a straight fight, no favorites. I think all could make the PS. "
This might be the most frank--and probably accurate--statement of what's likely to happen in the WR room that I've seen so far.
LambeauPlain
May 01, 2023 at 12:44 pm
"...have to show that they can catch consistently to get in the fight."
That's going to be a tall order, CW. It means they will need to get consistent passes thrown their way and many draft experts say Clifford cannot pass downfield. (tongue stuck firmly in cheek)
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 01:26 pm
Another reason to bring in a vet QB, at least for camp and with a chance to win the backup job.
RCPackerFan
May 01, 2023 at 10:04 am
This was definitely a draft that they had a focus on. It was a focus on pass catchers and defensive front help.
A few thoughts on your takes.
"When was the last time the Packers didn't draft an OL? "
This to me was the most surprising thing just because they always take an OL. But that being said, they have drafted 3 OL in each of the last 3 drafts. Also last year they brought in Caleb Jones and UDFA, and signed Luke Tenuta who was a 6th round pick. They have invested heavily into the position, so they really didn't need to draft one.
"1. the front office sees this retool as a multi-draft project. "
This wasn't a strong draft for S's, one of their bigger needs. They got a guy in the 7th round that probably isn't much different then they could have gotten in the 4th round. I think they just stuck to their board for the most part.
"2. they will have draft capital available in 2024"
We really need Rodgers to play 11 games, so we can get a 1st round pick!
"4. with two day 2 picks at TE and the departures of Tonyan and Lewis, they'll be emphasizing different parts of the playbook from what we've seen in the last couple years, but don't be surprised if the amount of 11 personnel actually increases early in the season as those guys get their feet wet."
I think we will see the play book opened up a lot more honestly. I think we will see a lot more variations and a lot more different looks especially early. I think they will find roles for Musgrave and Tucker early to get on the field more. But by doing so we will run different packages.
"5. they might be looking for a low-cost vet to add to the S and QB rooms, yet, "
I would not be surprised if they resigned Amos or brought in another veteran. I also would not be surprised if they brought in a veteran QB.
"7. Samori Toure and Bo Melton will need to win their roster spots in 2023. The Packers have kept 5-6 WR out of camp in recent years, and they just drafted 3."
Packers have Watson, Doubs and Reed as locks. They brought up liking Toure, so he is a very good bet to make it. That is 4. They then have Wicks, DuBose, and Melton competing for 1-2 spots. And maybe they decide they want a veteran to bring in. Competition will be fierce for sure!
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 10:31 am
"This to me was the most surprising thing just because they always take an OL....They have invested heavily into the position, so they really didn't need to draft one."
I was curious to see if maybe they draft a power G later on or added a developmental guy with positionall versatility to keep the pipeline moving--especially with Bakh's contract and Nijman and Runyan in contract years--but was surprised that it never happened. They know what they have in those younger guys you mentioned--Tenuta, Jones, Wallace, Rhyan. They must feel at least OK about them. They certainly have chaff they can discard on the depth chart.
""2. they will have draft capital available in 2024"
We really need Rodgers to play 11 games, so we can get a 1st round pick!"
I don't think the Jets win their division, but suspect they'll be a playoff team...I think that's a #20-ish pick.
"I think we will see the play book opened up a lot more honestly...I think they will find roles for Musgrave and Tucker early to get on the field more."
Unless they sign a dedicated Y-TE, Tucker is the man for in-line work. He's got the best-defined route to snaps on the roster and the higher floor between him and Musgrave right now. I agree, though, that they're going to likely develop specific niches for Musgrave and Tucker in the passing game. I think this means more routes for AJones, and I think it also means a direct path to more snaps for Reed out of the gate.
I could be completely wrong and they might ask those two to take on the whole playbook from the start.
Coldworld
May 01, 2023 at 11:12 am
In a sense, we did take an OL: Rhyan. It looks like he is going to be given a second chance this year.
Coldworld
May 01, 2023 at 10:33 am
Deguara may be on the block, but actually I think it’s more the H-back role. There’s no need to pretend he’s a true TE now. He can be used in the role he was openly drafted for. Will they use that role post Rodgers?
If they aren’t going to use the H back role, I’d consider moving on from Deguara. We now have the horses at TE. No point in wasting a spot for the usage made of the H back in recent seasons. Use Kraft or another TE to lead block. However, the H back role is part of the motion concept. It could be much more prominent this year.
That’s the defining question on him for me. I do note that one of the UDFAs profiles as an H back type. Perhaps thats a sign that the role is part of the plan.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 12:36 pm
I expect Deguara will finally be used as was envisioned at the time of his drafting: as the h-back just like the 49ers do with Polish hammer guy (not even gonna attempt spelling his name lol). Also worth noting, 49ers use heavy sets with Kittle, Dwelley, and Polish Hammer all on the field at the same time pretty regularly. Not a stretch to think we will see at least some sets with Musgrave, Kraft and Deguara on the field together too. I keep referring to the 49ers because that offense seems to be the prototype of what Gute/MLF are trying to build. The draft picks since MLF's hiring speak for themselves. And we all know why we havent seen it come to fruition on the field sooner. Thats already been addressed ad nauseum so theres no need to hash that out any further.
Tedlyflyfisher
May 01, 2023 at 10:57 am
Make no mistake, Bo Melton may well go down as the greatest receiver in NFL history some day.
p.s. who the hell is Bo Melton?
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 12:38 pm
You dont know Bo (sorry I couldnt resist lol)
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 01:24 pm
"p.s. who the hell is Bo Melton?"
A decent college WR who ran fast at the combine last year. Packers rescued him from Seattle's practice squad late last season, but he was never active for the Packers.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 01:46 pm
I think it was a tongue in cheek reference to Bill Tobin's draft day rant "Who the hell is Mel Kiper anyways?" but I could be wrong lol.
jannesbjornson
May 01, 2023 at 12:27 pm
I believe Davis sticks, as he did his job blocking on the wide zone and he has reliable hands. Deguara may need to be a H-back Pro sets/FB on the I-formation for Dillon. I like Lew Nicholls to challenge the existing crew for a RB spot. Wicks foot issues will have to be scrutinized.
Since'61
May 01, 2023 at 09:06 am
Ken your summary paragraph proves what I have commented about the draft for decades. Which is the draft is a crap shoot. I agree that on Day 3 the Packers went with the dart board approach. For all I know they used a dart board for the entire draft.
However as I posted in another thread yesterday the Packers made 4 selections who I like and who I expect/hope will become significant contributors by 2024 if not during the 2023 season.
Jayden Reed should be a prefect fit for the MLF offense. He has great speed and he runs hard. I'm am concerned about his drops and his durability based on his size. However if used appropriately he should be OK.
Tucker Kraft I expect/hope will emerge as the Packers #1 TE over the next 2-3 seasons and maybe even in 2023. Big target with good hands and a decent blocker.
Time will tell.
Karl Brooks may finally be the drop anchor run stopper the Packers have needed for at least a decade. Good value from a 6th round selection.
Lew Nichols runs hard, has a low center of gravity and he runs through people. He reminds me of Emmitt Smith in his highlight films. I know that I am getting way ahead of myself with that comment but if we lose both Jones and Dillon after this season Nichols could be our bell weather RB by 2024.
Beyond these 4 players I see plenty of potential with numerous questions but the draft is all about potential. Van Ness is a microcosm of the Packefrs entire class. He could be a boom or bust player. I see him learning his craft at the pro level in 2023 and being ready to start in 2024 and joining a fully recovered Gary to provide a dominating pass rush tandem from the Edge for the Packers. Musgrave and Wooden I expect/hope to evolve into very solid rotational role players. For the remainder we'll need to check the dart board after 2-3 seasons.
It's too soon to call how this draft class turns out for the Packers. Now that it is over I'm confident that the hype/speculation/propaganda season will begin in full form as it does every year until the regular season begins. That is when we begin to see if the reasons behind the players selected stands up to the reality of the professional level. Thanks, Since '61
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 09:21 am
Agreed on Brooks. If he can stand the jump in competition, he's got a chance to make an impact...but I think probably more down the road than in 2023.
RB is one of the more projectable positions in the draft, and Nichols has a run style that is easy to scout and see how it fits. He would've gone higher if CMU (which is just 15 miles up the road from us) didn't suck it so badly in 2022. He'll need an OL that blocks well and might never be much of a creative back. His impact will probably be connected to his ability to catch the ball and learn pass pro (but he did catch 40 passes during his breakout 2021 season)
I actually like the Van Ness pick--I think his floor is higher than other people seem to think due to his motor and ability to play standing up or with his hand on the ground. They could easily add 10 pounds to him and plug him in at DE or take a couple pounds off and run him on the outside.
Oh so in agreement on day 3 and the "throwing darts" comment. I can't believe how many folks are up in arms over day 3 selections.
MainePackFan
May 01, 2023 at 12:08 pm
"I actually like the Van Ness pick--I think his floor is higher than other people seem to think due to his motor and ability to play standing up or with his hand on the ground. They could easily add 10 pounds to him and plug him in at DE or take a couple pounds off and run him on the outside."
I agree Dobber. I read he came out of High School with a 3.85 GPA and had multiple Ivy League offers. He's obviously an intelligent kid. I have an idea he will pick up on things very quickly and the opportunity will be there waiting for Gary to return.
I listened to Bahk interview on Cheesehead TV during the draft. When asked about LVN he said he looked like a Ken Doll. LMFAO!!
Coldworld
May 01, 2023 at 07:06 pm
I really don’t get the surprise/indignation with the Van Ness pick. Produced consistently, still on the up, obvious schematic fit, exemplary character and effort type. I had him in the group I thought we might have a shot at and could justify taking for months and I was not alone here or in the media.
To be honest, I’d have traded back to try to get another 2nd this year, but most years that pick would be one I loved without reservation. He was the BPA in my view at that point. The only competitor, Jones, is less experienced and proven and another upside pick, in his case at T. I admit that I’m one who didn’t see T as being as urgent a need as some here, or as Edge.
MainePackFan
May 01, 2023 at 07:48 pm
I don't get it either. If we were staying at 13 I wanted JSN or Van Ness in that order. At the end of the day, none of us know, but I am happy we have Van Ness on our team.
The Packers are obviously fine with the O-Line room as they should be. We have been investing in it for years. At some point you have to let it play out. This is that point. Edge was a definite need. Kudos to Gute and his scouts, I think we had a pretty solid draft. Time will tell.
Lphill
May 01, 2023 at 09:19 am
I like the picks, the more I learn about the two Tight ends the more I like them, Van Ness will make an immediate impact as long as Joe Barry gives him the chance.
Swisch
May 01, 2023 at 09:40 am
As with Jordan Love, a theme in this draft was to look at the production of players two seasons ago.
It's important to recognize that Gute does get guys who have popped in college, but not necessarily in their final seasons.
Due to an injury, a coaching change, and/or a turnover of teammates, a player who is highly talented may finish his college career with a season in which he is not as productive.
Those players may be overlooked and undervalued, but Gute looks at the bigger picture of their pasts and their potential futures.
***
As mentioned in fan comments above at least a couple of times, if a prior injury doesn't appear to be a problem for the future, then go with the guy.
If a guy was limited by new circumstances with coaches and teammates, but keeps his head up and plays hard, then that's a good sign of character.
These guys are sort of like markdowns of top brands due to overstock or underappreciation, nicks and scratches, or perhaps other reasons that turn out to be hardly knowable or noticeable over time.
They can be great deals.
***
However, they are human, after all, and so all of this is a lesson in preparing players properly and putting them in situations to succeed.
In other words, a big part of this draft, any draft, is going to be how we handle these guys now that they're with the Packers, including personal encouragement.
So it is that a key to the Packers going forward is whether coaches LaFleur and Barry have learned from their past successes and failures to the point at which they are ready to be top coaches.
It's an exciting season upcoming if in the coaches and the players we see determination and enthusiasm and innovation and camaraderie for the building of a young team for a winning new era of the Green Bay Packers.
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 09:51 am
"a theme in this draft was to look at the production of players two seasons ago."
I think those extra years of covid eligibility and the new transfer portal rules have really messed with college scouting. Guys who played 5-6 years of college ball and played their final season as "full-grown men" against 18-21 year-old, less developed kids. Guys who played 3--4 years of ball at a directional college and then cherry-picked a destination for a showcase year to get ready for the draft. Those are factors scouts never used to have to deal with.
Most major injuries are recoverable, now. Remember when an ACL or achilles meant retirement? I can see why they'd be looking deeper at body of work, and in many of these cases took players who were productive earlier but suffered from some adverse factor (coaching change, graduation turnover, injury) in their final year (which might have generated a bit of a "discount") rather than guys who flashed for a single year and entered the draft.
jannesbjornson
May 01, 2023 at 12:58 pm
Well said Dobber. The Transfer Portal is essentially moving from AA to AAA in the college Farm System and get paid for their services.
PASSdaRELISH
May 01, 2023 at 09:55 am
My only gripe is that we could have taken 2 more chances at WR’s instead of wasting picks at a QB and K. There were some good ones still on the board. We could have really turned a weakness into a strength on our team. Draft a bunch and spend the summer figuring out who the top handful are. Especially when we more than likely could have gotten the same QB and K after the draft, and if not we could have gotten similar or arguably better.
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 10:08 am
Why would you draft 5 WRs? That's "Hunger Games-ing" it a little too much and potentially a bigger waste of draft capital than the QB and K picks you're harping on (who look pretty likely to be on the 53 in September at this point). There are clearly reasons why GMs didn't like guys like Perry and Boutte as much as the DIC did...we'll likely never know what they are.
"Especially when we more than likely could have gotten the same QB and K after the draft, and if not we could have gotten similar or arguably better."
Nobody can know what their availabilities would be...and if they liked these guys enough to draft them, why wouldn't they have been the choices as UDFAs?
Dragon5
May 01, 2023 at 10:44 am
There's a trend where UDFAs are costing more cap-wise relative to theoretical draft capital, so teams are strategically drafting anticipated UDFAs late to $ave.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 01, 2023 at 11:05 am
Don't feel we wasted those picks, however the two mid-round picks at WR I liked was Mims & Mingo. Unfortunately they went pretty high. I don't know off the top of my head what selection Mingo went but it was high. Believe in round 2. I really wanted Mingo to be a GBP.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 11:22 am
I wanted Mingo baaaad. I knew he wasnt falling out of the 2nd round. Mingo and Laporta were my 2 draft crushes and they both went right in front of us.
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 01:31 pm
I didn't expect Mingo and LaPorta to go THAT early, though...
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 01:52 pm
I did. The rare talents pop out on the film. My comps for them were Chris Godwin and George Kittle respectively. I hoped we would be able to snag both in the 2nd but the NFL had other plans. Oh well.
You cant always get what ya want
But if you try sometimes you'll find
You get what ya need
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 01, 2023 at 03:55 pm
I did like LaPorta as a 'receiving/move' TE.
I knew Mingo was miscast in the mock drafts at around #115 - #120, but didn't really know where he would go. Just looked it up and he was drafted at at #39. Honestly, that seems to make a lot of sense. He is going to be a good one & I was positive Gutey was drafting him. Was surprised when he wasn't. Regardless, I believe Wick is going to be very good. Similar size (close).
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 11:20 am
Theres only 1 ball to go around. They now have 7 receivers on their roster when they typically only carry 5 on gameday rosters. Adding even more means less reps to evaluate the guys they do have. I swear, Packers could draft nothing but receivers for an entire draft and there would still be people saying we need more receivers. Receiver mania is like herpes, it never goes away.
MooPack
May 01, 2023 at 10:08 am
My biggest take away:
With 3 defensive players taken (another #1) for the front and adding two more on the back, Gutekunst pretty much told Barry it’s put up or shut up time for his defensive scheme. Hopes and expectations will be high again.
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 10:11 am
Maybe he's stocking the shelves for the next guy?
Dragon5
May 01, 2023 at 10:08 am
7 life paths: Van Ness, Reed, Kraft, Wicks
born on a 7 day: Wicks, Anders, Nichols
Brooks & Valentine will be in higher risk personal 7 years for the '23-'24 season.
Lots of injury prone 7 energy in this draft class. Fingers crossed it doesn't bite Gute in the ass. He gutted much of last season's 7 during offseason moves. Potential can only be realized when it's on the field.
Heyward
May 01, 2023 at 10:32 am
So what you're saying is this draft could be good, or it could be bad.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 11:18 am
Thats the nature of the NFL draft.
splitpea1
May 01, 2023 at 11:12 am
I felt a little better about the Musgrave selection after we took Kraft. I was afraid that after Musgrave they would wait until the middle of Day 3 to grab another TE prospect, but they did the smart thing with Kraft.
I understand that Anthony Johnson, Jr. was a good value pick, but he has only one year of experience at safety. And then I read things like he takes poor tackling angles and lunges at the feet of ball carriers and misses....so that kind of makes your enthusiasm shrivel up a bit.
We could have made better use of our 5th round picks IMHO. Safety Antonio Johnson was available when we took Clifford and Wicks and was taken by the Jags directly after Wicks. Or we could have maybe moved up to select QB Clayton Tune before the Cardinals snagged him--much more upside.
Most intriguing pick: Wooden. If this guy can become a difference-maker, we're going to be pretty awesome up front.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 11:17 am
I dont think drafting Van Ness tells us anything about Gary's injury status. He wasnt drafted to start day 1 nor will he be expected to unless he comes in and balls right away. I expect to see Smith and Enagbare start with Justin Hollins being the 3rd and Van Ness getting some reps here and there. They'll bring him along slow like they always do.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 12:41 pm
Drive-by downvotes are lame. At least leave a rebuttle.
LambeauPlain
May 01, 2023 at 01:02 pm
I gave you an up vote and will respond by saying your comment is accurate, TBSH.
I am not looking at Wooden and Brooks as starters (Brooks might be!), but as key rotational DL players to keep the DL less fatigued by the 4th quarter. Reed and Lowery were on the field way too often last season and Slaton and Wyatt way too infrequently. Kenny too many snaps too. So I also hope the other Slaton and Ford show they belong.
IMO Kenny, Wyatt, Slaton, Brooks, Wooden, the other Slayton and Ford may be the best group Montgomery has coached.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 01:13 pm
I was only really referring to Van Ness but yeah I agree with you. Plenty of talent on the interior. Brooks reminds me so much of Mike Daniels. Really looking forward to seeing more TJ Slayton and Wyatt as they were both criminally underused last year. Honestly, I hope this team commits to running more base regardless of what the offenses are doing as a way to control the line of scrimmage (similar to 49ers defense who prioritize controlling the line of scrimmage over having man advantage in coverage). The best way to keep the zones tight is to collapse the pocket before the receivers have a chance to get into the zone windows. This is how the 49ers defense thrives year after year without any elite secondary players. The only 1st round pick theyve had in their secondary was Jimmy Ward. And they drafted him nearly a decade ago and he wasnt elite either. Their front 7 dictates everything which makes life easier for the secondary. This approach is how the Pack can transform their defense but I wont be holding my breath.
Coldworld
May 01, 2023 at 07:26 pm
I think it’s not impossible that Van Ness starts. However it’s Smith, him and Enagbare in the base rotation. Hollins is a lighter more speed oriented situational rusher I expect. I don’t expect them to rush Gary back but rather to gradually work him in once is cleared. I don’t expect him to have the same physical prowess early.
Leatherhead
May 01, 2023 at 12:17 pm
Once Again, the Packers have shown us that they don't take offensive players in the first round, even if they need them.
The Packers have shown, once again, that they can find good skill position players on the second day.
Several of the players the Packers drafted had better junior seasons than they did as a senior. Just like Jordan Love.
Right now, our #7 and #8 offensive linemen are Newman and Hanson. When injuries hit, and these guys are starting, I don't want to hear any bitching about it. It could have been avoided.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 12:44 pm
Well theres is a chance Hanson and Newman improve. Remember TJ Lang? The guy was an absolute mess his first 2 seasons. Then he put it all together and became one of our best linemen over the last 20 years. And were also talking about our #7 and #8 linemen. Its safe to say theres no team in the NFL with pro bowlers at #7 and #8 on their offensive line. Like Gute said the other day, hes trying to build the most balanced team possible. This draft class reflects that.
LambeauPlain
May 01, 2023 at 01:10 pm
7th rounder Scotty Wells barely made the team as a PS player in 2005...made the 53 after Flanigan was injured and in 2006 was named starting C...for 6 years and a ProBowl...then rang the bell with the Rams in FA.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 01:57 pm
Wells is another good example. Development isnt always linear. Sometimes theres more valleys than peaks in the beginning but you dont give up on a guy unless he becomes a problem.
jannesbjornson
May 01, 2023 at 01:07 pm
Why not Rhyan? He was a three pick and let Walker, Delance and Tenuta fight off Newman. I like Broderick with the #13, but the D line lost two guys and three if Gary doesn't show up until Thanksgiving.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 01:56 pm
Good point. I had basically forgotten about Rhyan lol.
Leatherhead
May 01, 2023 at 03:30 pm
Rhyan has never played a single snap in the NFL, and is going to start the season under suspension. That's why he's behind Hanson and Newman, both of whom have actually played in actual NFL games.
jannesbjornson
May 01, 2023 at 04:14 pm
"No longer suspended Rhyan's six-game suspension for violating the NFL's policy on performance-enhancing substances was lifted Monday, Aaron Wilson of KPRC 2 Houston reports. Impact Rhyan was forced to miss the last six games of the 2022 campaign for violating the league's performance-enhancing substances policy."
greengold
May 01, 2023 at 03:51 pm
Oh, fuck off with that!!!
(Don’t get pissed. Saying this in a brotherly fashion. Pretend we’re at the pool table knockin’ back Pabsts).
Come on man. That sounds too much like sh.
You wouldn’t have said Jack shit about our OL if they took JSN or Johnston, and you know it.
You’re prepping people to be wary if we’re playing OL #s 7 & 8???
Wtf, dude? Snap out of it.
What? I’m supposed to RUE THE DAY because I wanted a goddam pass rush???
I felt badly for you in the moment, knowing how badly you wanted WR R1. Same for Knock when Kincaid went off the board.
But, come on buddy!!! You got this. Watch Wicks’ 2021 tape, and DuBose’s highlights, and I’m tellin’ you, you’ll feel a whole lot better.
stockholder
May 01, 2023 at 06:13 pm
Pabst- Your fathers beer?.
The Miller guy used a little common sense.
Maybe you better switch Beers.
Do you remember Rogers from MSU?
I could go on with my comparisons. .
Qoojo
May 01, 2023 at 12:37 pm
Reading through the article, almost at end, then read "They don’t want Darnell Savage and Rudy Ford to be their only options". Panic moment.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 01:01 pm
But they're not the only options. They acquired Tarvarious Moore in free agency, who will start for this defense. This signing fell under the radar because 49ers tried experimenting with him at nickel last year and it didnt work out. Prior to that, he played safety and he played it well. Blazing fast whos best trait is fitting the run. Exactly what the team needs. Gute loved him coming out of college and just missed drafting him.
Rebelgb
May 01, 2023 at 01:02 pm
Love lining up at QB with:
5 veteran quality starters on OL.
Watson, Dobbs, Reed, Musgave, Jones, Dillan....
Hmmmm, even if we only win 6 games this year its going to be fun to watch!!!!!!
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 01:58 pm
They'll have 6 wins by Halloween. This team is going to surprise a lot of people.
greengold
May 01, 2023 at 04:29 pm
OMG Rebelgb & TBSH! You’re smokin’ some of that stuff too? Isn’t it GREAT???
Lolz.
Hell, I can’t wat to see Wicks (2021 highlights - don’t miss ‘em!) and DuBose too!!! Check his as well.
Wow!!! Gutekunst got some tough ass Muthafuckas at WR this year in Reed, Wicks & DuBose.
ALSO, on Wicks. Sounds like that Virginia program spiraling down. New HC & OC may have accounted for Wicks’ poor numbers in 2022. His QB just hit the transfer portal to GTFO.
Might have just been loss in morale causing lack of concentration.
How about that?
Swisch
May 01, 2023 at 07:28 pm
I'm excited about the 2023 Packers, including all of the young talent at quarterback and our receiving positions.
I'm more hopeful about Love than about any of the quarterbacks taken in this latest draft, and many others taken in recent years.
***
In general, brace oneself for the worst, hope for the best.
In the middle, I think 9-8 is a plausible goal, which may get the Packers into the playoffs.
Just a couple of seasons ago, the Packers were 13-4 -- and although we've lost a lot of talent in Rodgers and Davante, we seemed to have also gained a lot along the way.
The spotlight is on the coaches to make this new era of the Packers not so much of a rebuild as a reload.
marpag1
May 01, 2023 at 05:06 pm
"Will Levis, who was taken at the top of the second round, spent three years at Penn State and then transferred out because he couldn’t beat out Clifford."
Can we stop saying this? Does anyone actually believe that Clifford is a better player than Will Levis? If not, what is the point of repeating this nonsense over and over ad nauseum?
In the past few years, Will Levis got a whole lot better than he was. Sean Clifford didn't. It's not complicated.
dobber
May 01, 2023 at 06:42 pm
Cerebral, experienced, level-headed leader--Clifford was taken to be the non-threatening Doug Pederson understudy to Jordan Love's Brett Favre.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
May 01, 2023 at 07:08 pm
Levis couldnt beat out Clifford.
Swisch
May 01, 2023 at 07:44 pm
What Clifford may have done as well or better than Levis is to be a leader on the field for team results -- including MVP of a win for Penn State in the most recent Rose Bowl.
At this point, we don't know who will have the better pro career. It'll be a matter of not only talent but of character.
The three greatest quarterbacks of all time came into the NFL with underwhelming projections:
(1) Bart Starr
(2) Joe Montana
(3) Tom Brady.
If Clifford or Levis have half the career of any of these guys, they'll be highly successful QBs with at least two titles.
Tundraboy
May 01, 2023 at 09:09 pm
I feel good about this draft , my expectations are sobered as always because only time will tell whether it all works out. Nonetheless I feel a lot of thought was put into it with particular attention to the talent that we have already on the roster and that there is a plan. We may not have the coaches to implement the plan, but I think Gutey is the bright spot and is the least of our problems. Murphy, Barry,and MLF, that's another story.