Cory's Corner: It Doesn't Matter If The Packers Are Disgusted
Green Bay's uncertainty around Jordan Love has caused the current sinkhole of confusion.
So what is Aaron Rodgers going to say?
Whether you believe Bob McGinn or not, things aren’t exactly going to be warm and fuzzy in Green Bay.
“As of right now, I’m convinced, based on my own instinct and knowing the NFL and knowing what happens after all these defeats and discussions with someone who has firsthand knowledge of this organization of the Packers internal debates, that they are done with Rodgers,” said McGinn to Tyler Dunne on the GoLongTD podcast. “That’s the way it is right now, that he’s not coming back. They’re disgusted with him and they’re done with him and they’re moving on.”
I am not sure when Rodgers is coming out of his darkness hibernation, but I would suspect that it would be soon. Something like this is perfect fodder for the “Pat McAfee Show.” I can just see McAfee with his tank top and a sly grin as he goes, “So Aaron, did you know that the Packers are disgusted with you?” That will make this news continue to spin out of control as the organization and frankly, the rest of the NFL, is beyond tired of this endless rhetoric.
The funny thing is, I wouldn’t be surprised if Rodgers pulls a 180 and declares that he wants to come back to Green Bay. Even if the Packers do have designs on moving on from No. 12, he holds all the cards. He’s due $59.5 million in fully guaranteed money in 2023. And what’s worse, he has an albatross of a dead cap hit for 2023 — $99.7 million. So even if Rodgers does want to get traded, the only way that happens is if he agrees to rework his contract.
So while many are opining about what team Rodgers will end up on, it isn’t solely about the assets the Packers could be getting back. It’s about if Rodgers will agree to lighten his contractual load.
I think that Rodgers wants to follow in Tom Brady’s footsteps and blaze his own trail. Which is odd, because the Packers gave him a three-year $150 million assurance just last spring. And the reason they did that was because they weren’t sure about what Jordan Love could give them.
Even if what McGinn said was true, it doesn’t really add up because the Packers backed themselves into a corner by barely playing Jordan Love. Do the Packers really know if Love can lead an offense or if he can be trusted to get a long-term deal?
Ever since the Packers’ season ended Jan. 8, the confusion has gone into hyper drive. Rodgers and the Packers are so concerned about saying the right things that what’s bound to happen will likely make the other party disappointed.
So I don’t think the Packers are disgusted with Rodgers, because at this point they cannot afford to risk losing a quarterback they know can actually start at quarterback.
This problem isn’t about the here and now. It’s about the lack of trust that has been given to a quarterback that the Packers traded up to get in the 2020 NFL Draft.
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__________________________
Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn
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Comments (190)
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 06:55 am
"Whether you believe Bob McGinn or not"
I don't.
"So I don’t think the Packers are disgusted with Rodgers, because at this point they cannot afford to risk losing a quarterback they know can actually start at quarterback.
This problem isn’t about the here and now. It’s about the lack of trust that has been given to a quarterback that the Packers traded up to get in the 2020 NFL Draft. "
I completely agree with this!
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 21, 2023 at 10:22 am
RC,
Just want to add that McGinn isn't a young wide-eyed journalist trying to make his mark. With over 40-years of experience and 37 years covering the Packers I tend to believe him. I will also add....whenever I communicated with McGinn over the years at the Journal he was always very professional and classy. Meaning....I tend to believe McGinn but the reality is who & why was he given this piece of information? Where there is smoke there usually is fie!
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 10:35 am
That's fair.
He used to be very good. The problem is the last however many years he has been wrong about a lot of things, and I don't trust that his information is accurate. He has been proved wrong many times the last however many years. If he ends up right, fine. But I'm not taking what he says as the truth.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 10:52 am
What McGinn wrote is probably somewhere in between total truth and total opinion, but who knows where on that scale it falls? I'm not giving it much credence, myself, because it does nothing to help the team regardless of whether they want to trade AR or want him back.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 11:14 am
Probably. I think its a lot more closer to opinion then fact. How many sources does McGinn really have in 1265?
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 11:26 am
McGinn is typically very careful to make clear what is opinion and what is not. He has more recently tended to over dramatize, but he’s not a “make it up and pedal it as fact” guy. So there may be some smoke but I suspect no conflagration of the sort the headline implies.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 22, 2023 at 05:53 am
The Packers are disgusted is only important if McGinn means one or more of Murphy, Gute, Ball, and LaFleur, and very definitely in that order.
In the same article McGinn said that Aaron Rodgers is not a first ballot hall of famer, and isn't one of the top 18 all-time QBs. EIGHTEEN! That might be over-dramatic, but it sounds like just being a crank to me.
I also think Murphy and others might have been disgusted with Rodgers years ago dating to the fight with McCarthy. He's a complicated fellow isn't new. Yet, they still gave him $101M fully guaranteed and 50M more partially guaranteed.
Philarod
February 22, 2023 at 01:17 pm
I didn't read the article, but if McGinn (or anyone) puts Rodgers outside of the Top 5 Super Bowl-era QBs, I'd probably stop reading.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 21, 2023 at 10:53 am
RC.....whether right or wrong it is the timing that strikes me. Rodgers is going to come out of darkness and will be immensely pissed & will have a Gutey size chip on his shoulder. He likely will not trust any reassurances the front office might give him that McGinn was wrong. This is going to be a cluster f%#k and provide entertaining drama. I am probably going to purchase some popcorn and just sit back and watch this unfold. I mean the continued screw-up by the front office regarding Rodgers has been beyond stupid! This has gone on for so long that none of us should even get upset anymore....should we? Then again, we are talking about AR and the FO!
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 11:13 am
This timing of this seemed planned imo. That is how it felt when i first heard about it.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 11:33 am
Timing could be triggered by Rodgers making a thing of his retreat in a dead period. Nothing is supposedly recently learnt as I understand it, so timing was probably up to McGinn. I seriously doubt the packers would let out something that makes them look as idiotic as this does if you think about it in such a passive aggressive way. It seems even less likely that Gute/LaFleur/Ball or any more junior exec would do so to undermine Murphy’s repeated public statements. That would be civil war and a major reversal of actions to date. If it were, it’s tactically inept but would show more spine than I’ve seen.
jont
February 21, 2023 at 05:11 pm
"I seriously doubt the packers would let out something that makes them look as idiotic as this does if you think about it in such a passive aggressive way. It seems even less likely that Gute/LaFleur/Ball or any more junior exec would do so to undermine Murphy’s repeated public statements. That would be civil war and a major reversal of actions to date. If it were, it’s tactically inept but would show more spine than I’ve seen."
👍
Packerpasty
February 21, 2023 at 10:33 am
I don't put much on what McGinn says, he's not exactly an insider anymore, he has said a lot of things like this even back when McCarthy was coach...so take what he says with a grain of salt...so he's written books on the Packers? Big deal...I think Rodgers just may be back...seriously doubt anyone in the organization reached out to McGinn and said "we are disgusted with him"....
barutanseijin
February 21, 2023 at 01:51 pm
Right. That’s why it’s better to believe Rodgers fanbois who can’t fathom even the possibility of change.
Packerpasty
February 21, 2023 at 04:27 pm
oh I hope there is change, it will be better for both sides thats for sure...tired of hearing about Rodgers continuously day after day here on CHTV...just saying, there is a very good chance he will return..I doubt anyone leaked that management is "disgusted" with him...pleanty of "fans" here on cheesehead are but I doubt management would say such a thing...not very professional..
PackerGravy
February 21, 2023 at 07:00 am
The Packers front office has bumbled this whole deal.
Giving Rodgers a ridiculous contract that is choking the team
Giving Rodgers the power to make team decisions and laugh in the Packers face by not giving two shits about the team
Extending Gutekunst after all the blown draft choices, including Jordan Love who obviously they are not confident in
And now leaking back channel info about moving on from a diva who doesn’t want to put in the off-season work anymore, tarnishing any trade value he might have have
What a cluster flock! Some heads gonna roll when the dust settles!
dobber
February 21, 2023 at 08:25 am
"Giving Rodgers a ridiculous contract that is choking the team"
...well, it's not ARod's contract that is currently choking the team--at least, not yet. He's counting $31.6M against the cap in 2023, or about 14%, 11th among QBs in 2023. Yes, that's still a lot, but it's the contracts the Packers have had to maintain to placate him and make sure he's not feeling like he's part of a rebuild while also trying to keep good, young players like Jaire and Jenkins that is the problem.
It's the confluence of too many agendas going on at the same time: 12's and whomever is calling the shots on each player in deciding who stays and who goes (Gute? Murph? Ball?). Too many cooks in the kitchen.
"And now leaking back channel info about moving on from a diva who doesn’t want to put in the off-season work anymore, tarnishing any trade value he might have have"
I don't think--if it's true--that this is a mystery around the league. Just because we are hearing it in media outlets now doesn't mean it isn't old news among scouts and personnel guys. I don't think it impacts his value much in the eyes of GMs...he's still who he is.
greengold
February 21, 2023 at 09:34 am
This is a brilliant take. One that I find hits all the marks.
NickPerry
February 21, 2023 at 07:08 am
I don't think anyone would give the Packers a free pass. YES, they did draft Jordan Love and then last season give Rodgers that ridiculous contract, a contract where Rodgers really does hold all the cards (Way to go Murphy and Ball). They should have traded him last season, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
But this Rodgers watch 3.0 is ALL on Aaron Rodgers. Maybe it doesn't matter if the Packers are disgusted but I think many of the fans ARE DISGUSTED. Most of us are tired of this. Instead of reading about exciting prospects the Packers could be drafting, were talking about this...AGAIN!
No offense Cory, I appreciate all the things you write here on CHTV along with every other writer here. CHTV is the BEST damn Packers site on the internet! And I'm sure just like myself you're looking forward to the day this is all over.
Here's hoping to a QUICK decision once Rodgers emerges from the darkness. One that he sees himself in a different color Green or Silver & Black.
mnbadger
February 21, 2023 at 01:45 pm
I don't care if the trade destination color were purple, silver and blue or whatever colors the chicago cubs, i mean bears wear.
Ship him out with all of his baggage. get a few good players to fill holes and a couple of picks.
I hate myself for reading any more of this subject.
But as NPerry stated, this is the best GBPkr sight I've found. It includes many contradicting opinions which is healthy. All are from passionate fans.
GPG!
Savage57
February 21, 2023 at 07:10 am
However this plays out, stay, go, retire, I can't wait to hear Rodgers go off on McGinn and this giant journalistic cowpie he dropped all over Packersnation.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 09:46 am
The only thing I want to hear from Rodgers is what he has decided he wants, clearly and unambiguously stated. Not holding my breath but hoping.
Packers1985
February 21, 2023 at 07:17 am
First of all i wouldn't be falling for this. If i am not wrong Bob Ginn did say something about that Lafluer had a rift with Rodgers even during 2020 season. I dont know who his close sources were it seems to be more cooked up story and packers wont be making such comments atleast during the trading season .
croatpackfan
February 21, 2023 at 07:51 am
They had a rift because MLF sent FG unit on 4 & 7 in NFCCG vs Tampa. After that game MLF just become subservant to every wish made by ACR.
Packers1985
February 21, 2023 at 08:10 am
He reported before the start of the 2020 season not after.
"It's worth noting that back in 2020, when the Packers traded up for Love in the draft despite having Rodgers on their roster, McGinn reported something similar.
"Public niceties aside, my sense is [Packers coach Matt] LaFleur, fresh from a terrific 13-3 baptismal season, simply had enough of Rodgers' act and wanted to change the narrative," McGinn wrote at The Athletic. "With a first-round talent on the roster, the Packers would gain leverage with their imperial quarterback and his passive-aggressive style."
MainePackFan
February 21, 2023 at 08:21 am
Why anyone is listening to Bob McGinn anymore is beyond me. Rumor has it that Oppy and Jurp are his "inside sources" lol.
Just kidding Oppy and Jurp :) Kinda.... ; )
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 08:46 am
Its like using 'Sources' as to why players hate Rodgers. And the sources are Greg Jennings and Jermichael Finley.
MainePackFan
February 21, 2023 at 08:51 am
Or the media twisting what Romeo Doubs said, just to fit the narrative they want to push.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 09:04 am
Oh absolutely.
Media loves to twist things to fit a narrative.
barutanseijin
February 21, 2023 at 10:03 am
Yes, he should only use sources that are friendly with Rodgers. That way Bob can write the kind of stories you want to read: “Rodgers readies for season by golfing“, “Rodgers: greatest NFCN QB ”, “It’s not 12’s fault: An exculpatory analysis of Packer losses 2005-2023” yadda yadda yadda.
Packerpasty
February 21, 2023 at 10:41 am
Bob has some sort of grudge, the Packers aren't run the way he wants them to be run...he has definitely fallen out of favor with anyone inside Lambeau....everyone who follows Packers knows that...and Silverstein aint far behind...they aint gonna get any "insider" tips...
dobber
February 21, 2023 at 01:00 pm
"Bob has some sort of grudge, the Packers aren't run the way he wants them to be run"
So Bob McGinn is Stockholder!
greengold
February 21, 2023 at 02:22 pm
It's about time something in this place starts making sense. Now I get it, and everything becomes crystal clear.
Time to hit Johhny Nash.
LOL
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 08:50 am
It would be hard for me to be an "inside source" since I spend most of my time outside... :)
I also live 200 miles from Green Bay, which would make for a long commute.
Perhaps stockholder is an inside source? I really think he's Murphy just trolling us.
MainePackFan
February 21, 2023 at 09:04 am
According to Bob McGinn's "inside sources" here at CHTV, you and stockholder are one in the same ; ) You write a post as stockholder, and then you rebuke him as Jurp. Kind of like Jeff Dunham and Walter. I love it!!! lol.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 09:32 am
“My sense is” tells you he’s simply guessing. Nothing explicit to go on. I wrote it off at the time completely. Had we seen the system he was brought to install not be rolled back after 2020 with the non or inapposite use of picks designed for it and the death of motion and any illusion of complexity, it wouldn’t be worth resurrecting.
The reality is that observed facts speak louder than anything. McGinn might have been talking out if behind behind, but there was clearly a fight about directions at some point. At that point our leadership needed to either find a new coach or QB. Of course we did neither, threw cap at the wall for the future and failed to win it all or to recover one that the window had closed.
That strategy ended up with a massive future cap hit, no FAs, a roster not remotely suitable for an older QB and one of the most insipid offenses imaginable (and other issues besides). At this point all this quibbling about details is long past its sell by date.
The marriage hasn’t worked, it’s visibly obvious and now Rodgers’ cost in cap just compounds it to the point where it’s just pointless. Poor decisions and uncomfortable cohabitations cost us a chance. Now they threaten to cost us chances in years to come. Let it go: let him go: let reality highlight and eventually clear out those who brought this to pass.
NickPerry
February 22, 2023 at 05:33 am
This is one of the best, straightforward comments on MLF and Aaron Rodgers I've seen ANYWHERE. It should have at least 50 "thumbs up" considering he posted it in the morning yesterday.
Hello...This sums it up perfectly.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 10:57 am
I once wrote a monthly column like that, but it's too hard to write as stockholder. Vogon is a difficult language to master...
MainePackFan
February 21, 2023 at 11:09 am
lol. I thought you would appreciate that comment Jurp :)
Bitternotsour
February 21, 2023 at 09:10 pm
i think it's corey. spicing up the message board for clicks and comments. that account is too dumb to be real, and the bad english isn't consistent. definitely a troll account, just a matter of who is writing it.
bob mcginn has one source, ron wolf, and ron is so far removed from the actual goings on in the team that he just guesses what's up and bob prints it as truth...
PatrickGB
February 21, 2023 at 07:18 am
“ Disgusted”? It makes no sense to get too worked up over business decisions. Sometimes your right and sometimes you’re not. It was a dumb gamble by the FO. But live and learn. I say take our medicine and don’t compound the issue with even more cap screwups. Bide the time with draft and development and use Love as the bridge QB until the team gets back on its feet again.
stockholder
February 21, 2023 at 07:32 am
Forget the Fake news.
Rodgers should say he’s coming back.
The money shouldn’t be the argument.
The argument is; he is the starter, until benched.
He is here to lead. Not learn.
And thats how you run a NFL team.
As long as the FO isn’t on the same page.
RESIGN!
Gutey was wrong for drafting Love.
The price for Love, was enormous.
The weapons he should have taken
Show the Lack of intelligence.
And too much power for 1 man.
He had to know this wasn’t a back-up QB move.
It clearly was about replacement; of a icon.
Rodgers won the MVPS, Not Love.
The QB is the reason for a coaches success.
So he is responsible for the divide!
The damage is done. To everyone!
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 07:44 am
"Gutey was wrong for drafting Love.
The price for Love, was enormous.
The weapons he should have taken"
I agree that Gutey made the move too soon. Rodgers was different from Favre where he didn't openly talk about retiring.
The price for Love wasn't enormous. He traded away a 4th round pick to move up to get Love. Now that being said where it cost them was the players they could have drafted in place of him.
Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman, Johnathan Taylor to name a few.
While I love AJ Dillon, imagine having a backfield of Taylor and Jones together. Or having Tee Higgins to go with Dillon from that draft.
stockholder
February 21, 2023 at 07:55 am
Where it cost them was the players they
could have drafted in place of him!!!!!!
Thats the point! Thats the enormous.
Purdy worked for SF as a back-up.
(until he got hurt)
The #1 is BPA. Not using it on what left.
Bulaga left. ???
Gutey kept going to the scrap yard.
And he should have done the same thing
at QB. Wolf did with McMahon.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 08:36 am
They could've drafted a bunch of no-names, too. As has been abundantly shown on pretty much every draft site ever, the NFL draft is a crap shoot. For every Tom Brady there are dozens of Brian Brohms.
As for Gutey doing the same thing as WOLF did in getting a QB like McMahon as a backup, perhaps the name Blake Bortles rings a bell. Bortles was an #3 overall pick and most recently a backup GB QB. Didn't work out as well for the Packers, did it?
Name me one other starting (and GOOD) QB who was content with ending his career as a backup. McMahon was a unicorn (or purple squirrel, if you prefer), and much smarter than many of his QB brethren. Honestly now, can you imagine AR accepting a backup role with, say, the 49ers? I can't, and that's not a knock on AR. It has got to be extremely difficult to go from a superstar to a "is that Rodgers on the sideline with a CLIPBOARD?" I doubt that, in today's NFL, any star would be happy doing that.
Unlike your previous post, this is a 7.5 on the Bonkers Scale.
stockholder
February 21, 2023 at 09:35 am
Kizer was another failure.
Your right; wolf was better than TT.
Your assumption about Rodgers
being a back-up is Bonkers.
And the FO paid him knowing it.
Which goes back to replacing a Icon.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 09:38 am
Kizer was a virtually free flyer on a redemption project whom Gute cut for a UDFA. I seem to recall that, back then, you wanted us to draft instead of trawl through the repair ads for QBs. We weren’t the last to try it with Kizer either.
stockholder
February 21, 2023 at 10:16 am
Rd. 3!!!
and I suggested Hurts
Because of Kizer being a failure.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 10:22 am
So would you be happy moving Rodgers for Hurts then? Is this all about your opinion of Love? If so, then you should be arguing to move Rodgers on and look for the next Hurts if Hurts would now be a better option than Rodgers.
stockholder
February 21, 2023 at 11:01 am
Was it logic?
QB 1 ? When you have a MVP.
Then RB?
Then WR?
4 traded.
Lb @ 5.
Try redrafting this draft without a QB.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 11:37 am
You suggested Hurts. He is a QB. Changing the question is a non response.
Johnblood27
February 21, 2023 at 11:22 am
Eli Manning.
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2023 at 12:47 pm
The second and third rounds of the 2020 draft delivered Seven, Pro Bowl Players. The 2020 draft was loaded.
with depth pieces as starters. Siemian,or similar journeyman QB s are always around the corner to back up Rodgers. It was a panic move . Higgins would have helped this team and the number four on a safety. Not buying the current version of the Gutedkunst "strategy." Love would be starting in 2022, if he was comitted to the "Plan."
dobber
February 21, 2023 at 01:00 pm
The 2018 and 2019 NFL drafts each provided 9 pro bowlers in rounds 2-3.
15 first-round pro-bowlers in 2018. 11 in 2019. Only 6 in 2020.
Oppy
February 21, 2023 at 01:20 pm
all the drafts seem to be loaded if you cherry pick a single year and present the numbers without context, strange.
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2023 at 02:23 pm
Not fox news, no cherry picking, just reality. The 2020 draft was discussed pre-mocks to be a haul. It did not disappoint. I did not include the first round Pro Bowl players.
Oppy
February 21, 2023 at 07:57 pm
Yet, it under performed compared to the two years proceeding it?
That doesn't make a case for a haul, it makes a case for being average to slightly down compared to other recent drafts.
Small sample size, admittedly, but a larger sample size than 'well, draft gurus said 2020 was a bumper crop, and they had 7 pro bowlers come out of round 2/3', without any comparison to establish what a baseline number would be.
It would be interesting to know what the "average" number of players who are drafted each year in rounds 2/3 that go on to become pro bowlers during their first three seasons is.. my guess is that 7 isn't a particularly impressive haul, and yes, I'm basing that hunch strictly off the fact that Dobber has highlighted that the two previous drafts (2018, 2019) were better than 2020.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 08:07 am
Congrats, your English translation of your Old High Vogon is improving; too bad your analytical skills aren't. Which brings up the question... how can you be decent at draft posts and so reality-resistant when it comes to Rodgers, Gutekunst, and especially Love? Perhaps you're cutting and pasting? Anyway, that's a topic for another day...
I do have one question - who the hell should RESIGN!? I assume you don't meant Rodgers, but as he is the subject of the preceding diatribe, that's who RESIGN! should be meant for. Or did you mean RE-SIGN!, which is often not spelled with the hyphen these day? Now if you meant "FO", then you should've used a comma, not a period after the preceding sentence. You see? Punctuation matters.
Here's an example of that - do you see the difference in meaning between "Eats shoots, and leaves" and "Eats, shoots, and leaves".
Or in your case:
[Rodgers] is here to lead. Not learn. And thats how you run a NFL team. As long as the FO isn’t on the same page.
RESIGN!
and
[Rodgers] is here to lead, not learn, which is how you run an NFL team. If the FO isn’t on the same page, then they should RESIGN!
See the difference? In my translation, it's obvious who should resign. In your original version, it isn't, because "FO" isn't the subject of the preceding sentence.
Moving on...
As for analysis, let's take this gem: "Rodgers won the MVPS, Not Love" Answer me - how in the hell could Love win an MVP while marooned on the bench? Especially this past season, when all coaching logic should've dictated "Sit the QB with the broken thumb for a 2-4 weeks while the thumb heals"? So why even include this nonsense in your post? It sure doesn't improve it and definitely makes you look looney.
And what "enormous" price did Gutekunst pay for Love? It was a fourth-round draft pick, for Pete's sake. Now, if Justin Jefferson had been on the board and the Packers had picked Love, then yeah, you might have a point, but Jefferson and all of the other top WRs were already gone. Don't give me Tee Higgins, as he wasn't considered "top" at the time, if IIRC, and was passed over by every other GM twice. And that just gets to the next point - lots of #1 receivers flame out. I remember a post on this site late in the season that compared Round 2 Watson with the Round 1 receivers in that draft and Watson had better stats than any of them.
So, no "enormous" price for Love. Again, poor analysis
And then there's your conclusion, which means the opposite of what you think it means:
"The QB is the reason for a coaches success.
So he is responsible for the divide!
The damage is done. To everyone!"
If we parse the paragraph, "The QB" (Rodgers) in the first sentence is the subject of that sentence. "The QB" is referenced by the "he" in the second sentence; "he" is the subject of that sentence, which makes "The QB" referentially the subject of that sentence as well. So, to slightly edit your translated Old High Vogon:
"Aaron Rodgers is the reason for a coach's success, so he is responsible for the divide with the Packers and the damage to everyone!"
Still not English as we know it, but I think you can see what I mean when I say that your conclusion has a different meaning than you think it does.
And oh yeah, you scored well on the Bonkers Scale (the glue worked, BTW, and it's running nicely again): A solid 2, one of your lowest scores ever, so congrats are in order!
stockholder
February 21, 2023 at 09:42 am
RE-Sign. The FO is a team.
If you can't be on the same page,
You should re-sign or Fire the person
that caused the problem.
In this case it is Gutey.
The FO knew the problem
with #4. The media mess.
And they had the same person at the top.
Stick to the facts. Not Grammar.
barutanseijin
February 21, 2023 at 10:23 am
I read sh’s post as they are, but with bongo and saxophone accompaniment. Tuesday nights through May at the Village Rearguard! Beat poetry is back!
Coach Cleve Steamer
February 21, 2023 at 04:17 pm
Bonkers Scale? Seriously? Personal attacks should get a person called out around here. Beta talk would get an ass kicking in person. But there’s a gang here that enjoys the ridiculing and grammar policing. Thanks ahead of time for becoming a kinder person.
Bitternotsour
February 21, 2023 at 09:23 pm
I thought the grammar policing was not only warranted, but hilarious.
Ridicule of the ridiculous is a proper response. If you read the stock holder account you may note that the bad english is inconsistent. it is a troll account. i find it hilarious, and Jurp is thoughtful and funny, but he just consistently takes the bait.
Stockholder isn't a real person, just a personae on this sight to get the party started. As Reggie Jackson might have said "a straw to stir the drink"
fthisJack
February 21, 2023 at 08:22 am
We don't know if drafting Love was a mistake. He should have been given the chance while Rodgers thumb was healing and they would know what they had in Love. But Mr. Rodgers had to play until they were eliminated from the playoffs. Not only did they not make it, they burned a great opportunity to give Love some much needed experience.
Trade Rodgers, get some much needed draft capitol, and sink or swim with Love.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 09:43 am
Silverstein seems convinced that it was LaFleur who fought to keep Rodgers playing. If so, that’s just another reason that getting rid of LaFleur would be the first step in redemption absent Rodgers’ contract.
stockholder
February 21, 2023 at 09:49 am
Yes we do.
You play hurt in the NFL.
You don't bring in a union Buster.
Bargain agreements are just
for this purpose.
They protect the veterans.
It protects against a GM,
favoritism, union security.
player rights, and bad decisions.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 10:20 am
As one who excuses his play on the grounds of injury you appear to have accepted that it had a significant impact. You play injured if it makes strategic sense for the team, not for any other reason and that’s not an evaluation any player should make. That’s on the Coach. Just as it was when Rodgers cajoled Bakh into playing in a meaningless game in Detroit the year before.
dobber
February 21, 2023 at 10:22 am
This reads like someone repeatedly picked the middle word on their phone this morning.
Tundraboy
February 21, 2023 at 10:00 pm
One game for Love would have been better for everyone.
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2023 at 12:34 pm
Correct, dump the brain trust. The amateur hour held during the drafts should have Alerted the Fans many moons ago. You hear the Church Ladies defending the Silage operation as if they were also on the payroll.
Not a good look and now they bribe McGinn to toss in some potting soil among the weeds.
LeotisHarris
February 21, 2023 at 08:11 pm
"...and now they bribe McGinn to toss in some potting soil among the weeds."
We'll be back right after this. Hi, I'm Bob McGinn for Miracle-Gro. No matter how or what you grow...
pantz_bURp
February 21, 2023 at 07:34 am
Dysfunctional seems more like it. Biting knee caps, shins, ankles sounds pretty good right about now...at least I can understand the message.
NJ-RICK
February 21, 2023 at 07:39 am
Time for a new GM...!!!!!!!!!
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 07:46 am
Coming off of his best draft as a GM?
stockholder
February 21, 2023 at 08:02 am
Best Draft?? - You guys that supported
Gute says it takes 3 years.
The draft just isn't about getting replacements
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 08:07 am
Would you not argue that this was Gutey's best draft as a GM?
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 08:58 am
stockholder absolutely hates Gutey, so yes, he would argue something like this:
"Gutey's drafts are
always Terrible. His last draft?
Won't know for three
Years. Bu doesn't look good!
Except maybe Watson.
But he's been hurt!
Should've traded up to first round!"
I've got to give stockholder credit - it's very difficult to write in Old High Vogon and then translate it back into "english".
stockholder
February 21, 2023 at 10:04 am
Ok - Lets look at his last draft-
Adams ,MVS, And St.Brown left.
Tonyan didn't have to sign.
We always needed a ILB and DT.
(Since Daniels left)
So to justify Love: you avoid helping
your MVP, and finally draft Defense.
Then you give up two picks for a WR
That you should have drafted first.
All Rookie DRaft Is how you kill a MVP.
And replace veterans who knew their job.
Rodgers is part of a rebuild.
Whether he likes it or not.
Gutey was a head of scouting.
His drafts don't show success.
They show malice.
dblbogey
February 21, 2023 at 10:36 am
I'm glad you are not in charge of anything to do with the Packers.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 10:49 am
You seem to be looking at the positions not the players that they actually drafted.
Walker made an impact. He went through normal rookie learning periods, but he showed a lot of promise for the future. He had a good rookie year.
Wyatt didn't get much playing time until late in the year. But could be a key to the future.
Watson is a stud! He had 611 yards on 41 catches and 7 receiving TD's. He also had 7 carries for 80 yards and 2 TD's.
Doubs had a very good rookie year until he got hurt. He was becoming our number 1 WR going into the game he got hurt in.
Tom could have and probably should have been a full time starter somewhere on the OL. They for some reason decided to trot out Hanson and Newman week 1, when they should have used Tom at RT and Newman at RG. But Tom was a great pick.
Enagbare was a very good find in the 5th round.
This class was very good, and has a bright future.
Johnblood27
February 21, 2023 at 11:29 am
just wait until Rasheed Walker wins the RT job in TC...
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 11:53 am
Walker and Jones are definitely 2 guys to keep an eye on. Also Tenuta is a darkhorse to keep an eye on.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 11:41 am
Are you not aware that all draft picks are, by definition, rookies? Are you not aware that we have no cap? Are you aware Adams wanted out and we couldn’t afford Z. Are you even interested in being aware?
I suspect that you are particularly vituperative today because we renegotiated Jones, making getting your pet RB choice at 15 highly unlikely. I hate to tell you, but that was Ball’s bailiwick anyway. He’s the guy who decides what and whether to pay.
dobber
February 21, 2023 at 01:05 pm
"He’s the guy who decides what and whether to pay."
I don't think he operates with impunity. I think it needs to be a two-way street with Gute.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 01:29 pm
One certainly hopes so, but in the end it’s his call whether to resign and for what. We saw that most clearly when Ball suddenly pulled the plug on negotiations with Jared Cook and we ended up with Bennet.
dobber
February 21, 2023 at 02:21 pm
True, but that was when TT was on his last legs and BG was waiting in the wings.
I would hope that if Ball was truly calling the shots on who to sign and for how much, that BG would've walked by now.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 03:44 pm
Murphy has been clear. If there is disagreement, he’s the arbiter. One assumes mostly they reach an accommodation, but that’s likely very different from Gute getting what he think is best. Compromises cause divergence from the desired towards the possible.
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2023 at 01:19 pm
They show incompetence.
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2023 at 01:06 pm
It probably should have been his last draft, but he was extended for making selections that did not make the initial squad, are no longer on the current squad contributing or were re-signed in the case of Jenkins. One of the two players to see ProBowl merit. He saved his job with the 2022 draft, but still not stellar. Remember, he almost blew the Watson selection. Where was the TE selection? 30 plus years on the farm and chopping Silage with only two Stallions seeing the Winner's Circle. Not buying any of the BS chirping from Packertown,LLC.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 07:45 am
Cory, Rodgers doesn't hold all of the cards. The Packers could trade him to the Jets and Rodgers either reports, or doesn't. If he doesn't, then he either sits out the season or retires (and the trade is nullified, IIRC). Either way, he doesn't get the roster bonus due him. If he sits, he doesn't get paid, either.
But yeah, it's not that simple. I highly doubt that a trade happens without Rodgers agreeing to it. But, there's no accounting for dopey owners, and Woody Johnson is definitely one of that breed, so it's possible the Jets would make the trade without (with the Packers' permission) talking with Rodgers first. A trade packaging Bahktiari and another OL (and who knows, a re-signed Cobb or Lewis) would probably be much more palatable to Rodgers, as long as he can control whether Cobb/Lewis can get cut.
Do you REALLY think that Rodgers will retire in the same year that Brady does?
I've never liked Brady, but he did the Packers a favor by retiring this year.
Packerpasty
February 21, 2023 at 04:34 pm
and if he doesn't report then the Packers get diddly squat for him so whats the point of shipping him somewhere he doesn't want to go?? Spite?? Thats not good business practice..
Coldworld
February 22, 2023 at 08:28 am
Actually, when an asset becomes a net liability impacting future performance, sound business practice is to cap losses, take the hit and move on. Of course, that comes with huge questions as to how that situation came to be in the first place.
T7Steve
February 21, 2023 at 07:59 am
Even though this conversation doesn't matter it will continue through the whole season and beyond. Just what the outside news pundits crave.
For the Packers, get the O-line back to a top-5 unit with respectable backups. Get a couple tight ends. Get a consistent D-line with edge pressure.
Let the QB (whoever it is) hand the ball off to AJ and AJD, and this BS won't matter, we'll win the division.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 08:06 am
"For the Packers, get the O-line back to a top-5 unit with respectable backups. Get a couple tight ends. Get a consistent D-line with edge pressure.
Let the QB (whoever it is) hand the ball off to AJ and AJD, and this BS won't matter, we'll win the division."
I believe our OL will be back to top 10 for sure. Our Left side is IMO the best in the business and will be better from the end of the year with Bakhtiari and Jenkins a year removed from torn acl's. Myers I believe is improving and just completed his first full year as the starter. He had a lot of moving pieces around him also, so some stability around him should help. Runyan should be better with an offseason to work at RG. And that leaves RT. I personally feel like Tom should be the starting RT. But maybe they will look to draft a guy there. And if Tom is the backup, he is maybe the best 6th man in the league.
They have to upgrade TE, and pass rush for sure.
The offense should improve with Watson and Doubs going into year 2.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 08:39 am
Upgrading the TE only works if the QB throws to the TE in the middle of the field. I know the 90s were a different era, but passes to Keith Jackson down the middle helped win us a Super Bowl, and we sure missed that when he retired after the 96 season. One of our current QBs would NEVER make that kind of throw.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 09:03 am
There are plenty of ways to get the TE the ball. They just lack the talent at TE. Tonyan clearly lacked his explosiveness this year.
We don't have to go that far back to find the last TE that was a difference maker in our offense. That was in 2020 to Tonyan. Tonyan was the 4th leading targets that year on the team. He had 52 catches for 586 yards and 11 TD's. He provided the explosive option that they have lacked the last 2 years at the position.
In terms of completion percentage to the 4 most targeted players that year, Tonyan had by far the biggest % at 88%. The next was Adams at 77%. Then Aaron Jones at 75%, followed by MVS at 52%. This is solely based on the catches compared to their targets. Whether the targets were catchable passes, I have no idea. Just going off the stats I found online.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 11:00 am
Oh crap, you've presented facts! I'm not prepared for facts, only opinions! Damn. Time to crawl back under my rock. :)
Seriously, thanks for the reality check. I'd be curious to know what the percentage of those targets were passes to the middle of the field, but I'm betting that's difficult to find.
T7Steve
February 21, 2023 at 11:06 am
Have me laughing, Jurp. Thanks.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 11:24 am
lmao. that's good! lol.
Thanks for the laugh.
yeah i don't know for sure to be honest. I am sure someone tracks that kind of info. I just look at the stats because its by far the easiest to track for a simpleton like me.
I just look at the difference at TE this year compared to 2020.
2020 Tonyan was targeted 59 times, had 52 catches for 586 yards (11.3 ave) and 11 TD's.
2022 Tonyan was targeted 67 times, had 53 catches for 470 yards (8.9 ave) and 2 TD's.
In 20 he caught 88.1% of the throws that went his way. In 22 he caught 79.1%.
Tonyan post injury just wasn't the same guy. And they didn't have another TE that could do the things that he can do. I wouldn't mind seeing them bring back Tonyan next year because if he can gain back some of that explosiveness that he had in 2020, he could provide a major boost to the offense. And then draft a TE high and we could potentially have a pair of guys that could make a difference in the offense at TE.
I view Deguara as a hybrid H-back/TE. Can be a good player in the offense, but we need more down field threats at TE.
T7Steve
February 21, 2023 at 12:41 pm
Who's the one with the passing charts here every week of the season? He can tell us. Those were good reads, by the way. I thought I knew everything before reading those. Need to get him back because I'm starting to convince myself again.
LeotisHarris
February 21, 2023 at 08:17 pm
Dusty Evely. You can sign up for his newsletter here:
https://substack.com/profile/25391822-dusty-evely Good stuff!
T7Steve
February 22, 2023 at 07:35 am
Thanks, Leo. Weren't they "The Passing Chronicles" or something like that?
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 08:15 am
There is no doubt that the Murphy administration is at fault. What a franchise does is down to its ultimate decision maker. The issues here are not merely limited to Rodgers.
As to McGinn, if taken as true, it actually just asks more questions about how and why the Packers entered into that extension, willingly ceding power and control to the extent that they did and adopting such a future cap handicap. Either way it’s damning.
That said, McGinn hasn’t been one to speak where there’s no fire, but he has in recent years tended to be overly expansive and dramatic. The narrative that Rodgers was at odds with Gute wasn’t false—Rodgers has said enough to corroborate that, but it was likely over personalized and dramatized.
Quite honestly, the things Rodgers was purportedly upset about seem, with time, to actually be favorable to Gute, if anything. The response by the Packers on the other hand has aged very quickly and poorly.
Regardless of the above, it’s past time for the relationship of Rodgers and the Packers to end. Rodgers is not winning with what we have and can have now as a result of the course the Packers have taken. Therefore him staying is pointless for him or us as, should he stay, that damage only increases and significantly.
After 2 run backs, paid forward, had failed to deliver this should have ended. Once Adams told them he was leaving regardless, that should have killed all doubt. The last season should simply and clearly confirm that. In fact it amplified both the coaching weaknesses and some decline in Rodgers. Both are real. It showed that the window in this roster with our Pre-spent cap is 2 to 3 years out.
The belief that this set up and Rodgers, no matter how many past MVPs in win it all seasons, is anything other than a historical miss being kept alive fruitlessly at the expense of the future is just emotional wishful thinking. Unfortunately, the undead have yet to be quieted. If McGinn were right, the current passive attitude of the leadership would be pathetic. They should have taken the initiative and ended this farce not merely prayed Rodgers would or dither about if they have the guts.
If Gute would, but Murphy won’t let him then that’s a window into the damage Murphy has wrought since TT. If anything it would deserve some praise for Gute.
Once again, our best hope may be that Rodgers sees reality and takes it out of Murphy’s hands. That is, without doubt, the best prospect for him and the medium term future if this team. Whether that ends up being retirement or a move to a contender does not change that. We are still left with Mark Murphy, Matt LaFleur and all.
Good luck to Love or whomever, who will have to contend with inept offensive design, tactics, personnel usage and coaching decisions and management but it’s a step we all have to take to get out of this and compete meaningfully. We will have more cleansing to undertake post Rodgers before we are contenders, but Rodgers now has to be the first step to accepting and, through that, overcoming.
The sooner he is gone and this is resolved the better for everyone. He can move on in life, the team can start facing up to reality without the huge smokescreen obscuring and confusing and fans can either follow or start to heal. As long as he is here, that will not happen.
greengold
February 21, 2023 at 09:08 am
I concur with what you've stated here, in its entirety.
The McGinn component is kind of funny, really. I mean, look at the timing. Just as everyone has now had 1 weekend off from NFL action, the fanbase minds turn their attention towards the draft, and all the talking heads, of which McGinn is a card carrying member with pedigree in all things Packers.
Add to that the possible trade of Aaron Rodgers to the NYJ. There isn't a bigger media market, and McGinn's insights will be highly sought after. I'm sure he's been booked for appearances since he revealed this story. Phone ringing off the hook.
The Jets having already hired Nathaniel Hackett as their OC tells you Woody Johnson's intentions entirely. I strongly recommend friends here who are interested listen to his latest interview after Derek Carr's visit to the Jets.
Woody Johnson is gunning for Aaron Rodgers in a Jets uniform, with all barrels loaded. That interview leaves us no doubt.
***Of special note: Derek Carr is a horrible cold weather QB. He doesn't stand a chance of being signed by the Jets.
This deal is going to happen. Rodgers is out. He will be traded to the Jets to win it all, with a Top 5 Defense already assembled. The only question is how big will this deal be?
BIG.
Look at the Jets roster. There are only 5 OL currently listed, and they don't even have photos for 3 of them!!!
I'm convinced the Packers will trade away AR, Bakhtiari, and possibly another of our starters/backups to the Jets in one giant trade package, the likes of which have never been seen before.
Who cares if we have to go into a full-on rebuild? I mean, we've all anticipated this for years now.
I think this truly will turn out to be an unprecedented modern era blockbuster trade. We might eat some cap to swing trades for more picks/players. We'll be in just such a position to do so, and to move on, with our arms full, our team in the black, and our future bright.
Hey, if all they want is Rodgers? Fine. We'll get two R1s out of it, at a minimum.
13TimeChamps
February 21, 2023 at 10:06 am
"I'm convinced the Packers will trade away AR, Bakhtiari, and possibly another of our starters/backups to the Jets in one giant trade package, the likes of which have never been seen before."
Weren't you the same guy, two years ago, who was "convinced" that Rodgers was headed to Denver, even to the point of supposedly knowing what players were included in the deal?
As an aside, whatever happened to Shailene Woodley and her family moving to Boulder? Last I checked, they're all still in California.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 10:25 am
That was Leatherhead.
13TimeChamps
February 21, 2023 at 10:36 am
Both actually IIRC. Maybe we should let things play out before pretending to "know" things based on nothing but personal speculation.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 11:03 am
Yeah, it was both of them. GreenGold was the spearhead, IIRC, and I was with them the entire way.
That trade SHOULD have happened - we'd be in a much better place as a team because Love would've been pretty bad in 21 and we would've had a better drafting position and lots of cap room. Whether Love's career would've survived, however, is a different, unanswerable, question.
13TimeChamps
February 21, 2023 at 11:09 am
Posting on what we "hope" happens as opposed to pretending to "know" what is going to happen was the point I guessed you missed.
For the record, I also was hoping for a trade. For whatever reason, it didn't happen. Life goes on.
Leatherhead
February 21, 2023 at 02:57 pm
You do not recall correctly.
When the Dean of Packer reporters says he's gotten this from people with first hand knowledge of the situation, it's kind of gone past the personal speculation stuff.
13TimeChamps
February 21, 2023 at 04:34 pm
What I recall is you posting "It's done, Rodgers is out, Love is in" long before the "Dean of Packers" report came out. In fact, you've been posting it for the better part of a month.
Leatherhead
February 21, 2023 at 02:55 pm
No, it wasn't. I thought it made sense, but I was also aware that Gutekunst was saying "We're not going to trade him".
greengold
February 21, 2023 at 03:08 pm
Agreed.
greengold
February 21, 2023 at 12:35 pm
You tell me right here and now that we shouldn't have traded his ass then. Get off my lawn.
13TimeChamps
February 21, 2023 at 12:47 pm
I think I posted about 2 inches above your post that I was hoping for a trade as well. Try to stay focused.
You have no more insight about a trade this year than anyone else on this site. Pretty much just like two years ago.
greengold
February 21, 2023 at 01:33 pm
You're so full of it. You always will be.
13TimeChamps
February 21, 2023 at 04:28 pm
At least I stick to facts when posting. You should try it sometime.
greengold
February 21, 2023 at 04:32 pm
I couldn't be more sick of your juvenile offerings. Piss off.
13TimeChamps
February 21, 2023 at 04:38 pm
And I couldn't be more oblivious to what you're sick of. I'm sorry your big time scoop blew up in your face two years ago. Just surprised you're back at it. This time you're convinced Rodgers and Bahk to the Jets for multiple picks/players. Let's see how that plays out.
T7Steve
February 21, 2023 at 09:35 am
CW, that was long winded, but to the point (is that an oxymoron?). That would have taken me 3 hours to write. HA!
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 21, 2023 at 10:59 am
CW & GG and others!
I am just thinking CCTV should establish a CCTV Hall of Fame and the two of you along with a few others would automatically be first year inductees. If nothing else your profile names should be larger and say in red to stand out from all the rest of us. Love your commentary and thoughts as always provocative and a good read.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 11:04 am
Interesting idea. Maybe they could be given a special avatar by the mods?
greengold
February 21, 2023 at 01:54 pm
Thanks, but no. We all have our own ideas, strengths, weaknesses, limitations, what have you... That equal standing we all share here is privileged, and makes the place and its wealth of perspectives/info/research here great. I don't know shit, appreciate others' takes immensely and will remain a fan to my last days. Just a treat having been able to count many here friends for years.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 21, 2023 at 02:58 pm
Ah shucks...
BA4Packers
February 21, 2023 at 08:24 am
Both sides have some level of ownership in this cluster. It’ll work itself out.
There are worse things than having a 2 QB problem.
Deep cleansing breaths everyone.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 08:44 am
"There are worse things than having a 2 QB problem"
True, but this problem could quite easily wind up with the 2024 Packers having a No QB problem if they don't extend Love or pick up his 5th year option and if AR retires.
This is, sadly, what I think will happen if Rodgers isn't traded.
croatpackfan
February 21, 2023 at 08:28 am
Cory, if Packers trade ACR they will still have 40.2 mill $ dead cap hit as if they cut him. So, it is not that ACR hold all cards in his hands.
But, they need to cut him before new season starts.
And, it is not that they do not believe what Jordan Love can and can he be the starter. He can. Packers will go through transition year with any new QB. Veteran or rokie or someone w/o experience, but was honing his crafts for 3 years.
Claiming that you do not know if Jordan Love is capable to be starter is false. So, you believe that all those Packers players and some Philly cornerbacks does not know if some player is ready and talented to be QB, but you and other
ACR apologist knows for sure.
I suggest to search the statements from MLF when he was asked how he would describe what Jordan Love showed in 4Q vs Philly. He praised him for very mature and excellent QBing, admitting he was surprised by rhythm, timing, technique, decisivness and after snap reading opponent D, using check down instead of going by called play.
Than, many posters here claimed how Philly played preventive D when Jordan Love enteted the game. Darius Slay on his podcast said that Philly played full D expecting to confuse young guy at QB, but Love came out and did very, very good job. He also claimed that Green Bay has very bright future, becaise buddy Love can sling it in.
After all, same as MLF, on his press conf ACR said that rhythm, timing, fundamentals, foot work and technique was visible at Jordan Love plays.
Leatherhead
February 21, 2023 at 08:32 am
Rodgers is finished here. There is no "uncertainty" about Love, they think he's ready. The other stuff is a lot of nonsense based on nothing.
Speculate away if you wish, but at the end of the day, we're going to play Love, trade Rodgers, and use the draft picks to improve. The rest is just stuff people are making up.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 08:44 am
Isn't everything that we are talking about made up?
Everyone comes on talking about what they know, when in reality none of us know what really is going on.
You say Rodgers is finished here. Which he maybe is. But are you willing to go bet your house on it that Rodgers is done here no matter what?
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 08:47 am
RC, you know how I feel about AR as our QB, but my confidence in Murphy doing the wrong thing is so strong that I'd bet my car that AR stays (I can't bet the house because my wife won't let me - and she's not wrong - but I own my car outright. Hence the change in the bet).
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 09:00 am
Rodgers is done here as far as Super Bowls. Yes, I’m certain of that and was, looking at what we had this time last year, only more so after watching the last season. He might not be done elsewhere. That says much.
If he stays, the only certainty is we won’t be in contention to contend again for longer. There are no guarantees post Rodgers , but in our current position with our cap, roster and coaching, Rodgers just guarantees that it will be longer before we can return to relevance.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 09:15 am
Trust me, I know how you and many others on this page feel about Rodgers. I'm reminded about it every time I even mention his name I automatically get 8+ dislikes. Yesterdays test did show me exactly that lol.
But what you said is basically what I'm saying. None of us know what really is going to happen. We have guesses and thoughts, but no one knows what is going to happen. So all of these certainty's that people are proclaiming, maybe should just relax on that. Change the words from "this will" happen, to "I hope this happens" or "I believe this happens".
And before someone gets crazy I'm not enticing anyone to trade any valuables, so don't be coming back trying to sue me if you lose your house or car in this deal.
Leatherhead
February 21, 2023 at 02:58 pm
I would bet a very large sum of money on this RC. Are you making an offer?
dobber
February 21, 2023 at 08:47 am
I think it's ridiculous to think that both ARod and the brass in the Packers' organization don't already pretty much know what's going to happen.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 09:05 am
So the 4 days in the “hole” is just for dramatic effect? Ridiculous has come to seem quite at home in Murphy’s fiefdom. I’m going with the latter.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 09:19 am
I don't think Rodgers doing the dark retreat has anything to do with football. I think its about him doing things that he feels he needs to do, to re center himself.
But what do I know. I prefer lights.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 10:08 am
“Well, what do we want with a light,
In the dark we can manage all right.
If they'd had one when all our dads were young men,
Most of us wouldn't be here tonight!”
The Wurzels
stockholder
February 21, 2023 at 11:11 am
Maybe you should just change you name
to the shit house poet. ( I just couldn't resist.)
This isn't a OUT House.
But the moon shots sure fit the door.
RODGERS doesn't want to be part of a rebuild.
Yet- if you look at what just happened with
certain players, and the cap figures.
They speak of a rebuild.
The FO just gave up.
And their hope is Rodgers will too.
His Friends are gone.
And he should not let that stop him
from coming back.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 12:02 pm
They were referencing a bus stop. But if your mind takes you to the shit house, that’s kind of appropriate given what you are throwing around.
dobber
February 21, 2023 at 10:27 am
I think this is about right.
He said he's wanted to do one of these for a long time. Whatever. Sensory deprivation is also a way to unhinge someone--further.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 11:07 am
I hope AR's trip to the dark side ends better than William Hurt's in Altered States:
https://i0.wp.com/www.electricsheepmagazine.co.uk/reviews/wp-content/upl...
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 12:07 pm
The polite term is “White Torture”. Of course that may now mean something else to some.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 09:18 am
My feeling is Rodgers knows there are people in GB that doesn't want him back. And Rodgers deep down does not want to play somewhere else. Towards the end of the season he made a comment about it being a 2 sided thing and that he has to make sure they want him back. I have the feeling he heard rumblings that someone or some people wanted him out.
This is purely a guess though.
dobber
February 21, 2023 at 10:30 am
I think you're right: why would he want to play somewhere else? He's getting paid, he's got influence in personnel, and he's basically calling his own shots on offense. Is he going to get that somewhere else or be able to leverage it in his couple remaining years? The only thing he doesn't seem to have is the upper hand in the arena of public perception, and that might really bother him. It's possible he's got an axe to grind--maybe with Gute, maybe with LaF--and is trying to win one last battle. In the end, this is all setting up so that both sides can walk away and say--we tried, we worked on this, but it was time to break it off--so it looks like no one is at fault and it's an amicable split. The "no one was to blame" unicorn scenario.
We won't know until someone writes a "tell-all" a couple years down the road.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 11:04 am
Also add in that going into next year he will have his OL intact. He will have WR's emerging. Watson is a star, and Doubs will be very good as well. Toure could take a step as well. They will likely be drafting more talent to the position.
Yeah we won't know the full truth for a while down the road most likely. And most likely it will be when Rodgers talks. He has been very open about a lot of things. Packers likely won't ever talk about it from their side.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 11:12 am
"Also add in that going into next year he will have his OL intact. He will have WR's emerging. Watson is a star, and Doubs will be very good as well. Toure could take a step as well. They will likely be drafting more talent to the position."
But we'll still have a stale offensive game plan, an average at best coaching staff, and Joe Barry. Too many negatives to out-weigh the positives, IMO, but yeah, I think Rodgers, Cobb, and Lewis will be back and we'll be in cap hell for the next four+ years.
If we only get one side of this story, then we won't be getting "truth" at all - only one side's opinion. I could see us hearing from Rodgers and someone like McGinn, but I think you're write that we'll never hear from the team itself - that would actually be very unprofessional.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 11:33 am
Is it a stale plan if the WR's are getting open more often, running the right routes and not dropping as many catchable passes? Is it a stale plan when the OL blocks like they are supposed to?
Improved players and play, improves the scheme.
Valid point about Barry though. Can't fix that mess.
I will give Barry a tiny bit of credit though. This mess on defense wasn't solely on Barry. Campbell and Amos regressed. Clark, wasn't his best this year, Gary their best defensive player got hurt and lost for the season. Alexander didn't start out the year as physical as he was before. They played Douglas out of position. Stokes regressed and got hurt for the year. Savage regressed, but came back better after his benching. And there was the whole Jerry Grey thing, which we have no idea what was going on there.
So while I place most of the blame on Barry, we do need to place blame at others as well.
As far as the truth, we will get one persons truth, and we will never get the teams truth. But to this point what has Rodgers been untruthful about? People complain about his openness and honesty, but outside of the whole "immunized" thing what hasn't he been open about?
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 21, 2023 at 10:39 am
The thing is from all corners everyone believes the Packers have to move Aaron Rodgers. Even the Front Office per Bob McGinn. The whole environment around AR is toxic!
I know the following is crazy because the Packers need draft capital to re-build but even should the Packers be uncertain about Jordan Love (I do not believe this to be the case) depending on who the Packers end up trading Rodgers to whether the Raiders, or the Jets as examples there are going to be some top QB's available at that #7 (Raiders), or #13 (Jets) spot in round 1. One of these QB's is likely to be available:
Will Levis
C. J Stroud
Anthony Richardson
In Round 2 a very good QB such as Tanner McKee from Standford will likely be there. The point is the Packers would get more than a 1st round draft choice for Rodgers, but if they felt they needed to they could use one of their 1st, or 2nd round picks to select one of the top QB's in the draft for assurances in event Love did not meet expectations and still have other draft compensation to use to re-build the team.
RCPackerFan
February 21, 2023 at 11:11 am
You do bring up a great point.
If they did trade Rodgers, I do believe they would be smart to draft a QB with one of those high picks. At this point, they don't truly know how good Love will be. Maybe he will be great, maybe average. We don't know. But by drafting a QB high to go with Love, they are giving them the best opportunity to have 1 of the 2 to be great. If Love turns out to be great, then they could trade the QB they drafted for draft capital in the future. If Love isn't good they at least positioned themselves so the QB they drafted has a chance to take over in a year or 2. Also by drafting a QB it would push Love to be better.
I believe that worked for Rodgers when they drafted Brohm with a 2nd round pick.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 12:13 pm
Though picking Flynn in the 7th might have helped for longer. Unless they think more of Etling than we have given him credit for, I would not be at all surprised if we pick a QB at some point later in the draft, though I’m not particularly enamored of any this year.
T7Steve
February 21, 2023 at 01:01 pm
Love has received a season worth of practice with the 1st team due to Rodgers's injuries. It showed in his few reps in games. I don't believe the Packers aren't sure yet what he offers.
Don't be surprised if the Packers got a quality young backup/starting QB included in a trade for Rodgers. Zack Wilson (for instance) could look for a new start and would benefit from sitting for a while and may not be done yet.
jurp
February 21, 2023 at 11:13 am
Back away- quickly - from any Ohio State QB. I don't think there's been a successful OSU QB in the league for decades. Justin Fields sure ain't one.
vin0770
February 21, 2023 at 08:39 am
I don’t get the pussyfooting around. Tell AR he’s going to the Jets or he can retire. What’s he going to do, get pissed, act weird, tell everyone he’s a victim…been there done that.
4thand10
February 21, 2023 at 09:22 pm
Exactly!!!
stinkycheesehead
February 21, 2023 at 08:43 am
Trade him now, and let's move on enough is ENOUGH!!!!!
LeotisHarris
February 21, 2023 at 08:43 am
Fear in the air.
Tension everywhere.
Let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya.
Sayin', sinkhole of confusion.
That's what the world is today.
Sinkhole of confusion.
And the band played on.
barutanseijin
February 21, 2023 at 02:16 pm
No regrets
no tears goodbye
don’t want you back
we’d only cry again
LambeauPlain
February 21, 2023 at 09:21 am
Congratulations Bob McGinn! You wanted clicks, national attention, and create a controversy for personal benefit. Well played!
Stories written with only anonymous sources must always be believed. SMH. But this seems to be "journalism" now.
T7Steve
February 21, 2023 at 09:46 am
There's no such thing as "journalism" now. It left the room.
CheesedDeadHead
February 21, 2023 at 10:12 am
I think the villagers with flaming torches broke in, caught journalism and burnt it alive. It did not go gently into that good night...
Packerpasty
February 21, 2023 at 10:42 am
thats right, sign up for his podcast and newsletter...pay pall accepted..
Leatherhead
February 21, 2023 at 05:38 pm
Yes, after a 30 year career and multiple awards for his journalism, he made stuff up to get clicks for his blog.
Here's a clue: When McGinn says his sources are people with first hand knowledge, he's talking about Murphy, Gutekunst, Ball.....people with first hand knowledge. He leaked this because they wanted him to.
Why would he develop contacts in the org for over 30 years just to tell lies about them now?
MooPack
February 21, 2023 at 06:33 pm
Exactly. Biases over rule rational thought.
13TimeChamps
February 21, 2023 at 07:13 pm
Why on earth would the Packers want it leaked that they're "disgusted" with Rodgers and want him gone when they're supposedly trying to trade him? One thing we actually agree on is that GB's FO aren't a bunch of buffoons like so many on here believe. That, I'm afraid, would be a very buffoonery negotiating tactic. It makes absolutely no sense.
Leatherhead
February 21, 2023 at 07:54 pm
Why? Because they’re disgusted with him and don’t want him back, and it was timed so he could think about it, and then he’ll either retire or play somewhere else. Either way, he’s finished in Green Bay.
13TimeChamps
February 21, 2023 at 08:02 pm
Either way, you don't play your hand to the trading partner. I would have thought you would realize that, but apparently I overestimated you.
Leatherhead
February 22, 2023 at 11:01 am
I think the word you wanted to use was "reveal" your hand to the trading partner. Yeah, keep your cards close to your vest, but that's not the Prime Directive or anything. There's virtue in being direct when you know what you're doing
The Packers have publicly stated, over the last few weeks that they are open to moving Rodgers. It's going to cost two first rounders to ante up. They've publicly stated Love is ready.
What exactly are we giving away by sending this message, through McGinn? You think it's going to have a negative effect on his tradability? Seriously?
A bad case scenario for the Packers was Rodgers emerging from the dark and saying "I want to come back with the Packers and all my old buddies". That's been pre-empted by this.
The Packers have decided, now Rodgers decides whether he wants to retire from football, forever, or take a trade. That's his choice. A or B. Either way, the Packers are moving on. I'd like the picks we might get in a trade, but if he retires, that's fine too. I doubt that the word "disgusting", in a blog, is going to be any serious deterrent to somebody like the Jets or Raiduhs, unless you're one of those people that is easily triggered by language.
13TimeChamps
February 22, 2023 at 11:33 am
I think what you wanted to say was "unless the Jets or Raiduhs are easily triggered by language". I'm not actually involved in the negotiations.
You're welcome.
Leatherhead
February 22, 2023 at 01:59 pm
I wasn't referring to you, you egocentric boob.
13TimeChamps
February 22, 2023 at 02:16 pm
You're the boob who couldn't figure out it was a sarcastic response to your snarky "I think the word you wanted to use was "reveal" your hand" comment.
13TimeChamps
February 22, 2023 at 02:24 pm
So we're back to name calling again. And here you had been doing so well!
Leatherhead
February 22, 2023 at 03:01 pm
It is pointless to try to treat you like an adult.
13TimeChamps
February 22, 2023 at 08:28 pm
I keep trying to find a link to where the FO said it would take 2 first rounders. Could you help me out?
13TimeChamps
February 21, 2023 at 08:25 pm
Gute to Murphy:
"Yo boss, it looks like the Jets might be willing to surrender some serious draft capital, maybe even throw in some players as well, for Rodgers. But let's make sure we let them know how disgusted we are with him and can't wait to get rid of him. I know it's a little unusual, but I think it's how we should approach this. So let's leak to the press how much we want to be rid of this guy".
Said no GM ever!!!
CheesedDeadHead
February 21, 2023 at 09:41 am
Is this a caption contest?
"Father, why have you forsaken me?"
ottscay
February 21, 2023 at 10:13 am
I think McGinn is probably more or less right (I have no idea if "disgusted" is the right word). Also, while Rodgers appears to have the upper hand with the current contract, the Packers have a lot of "soft power" in the situation. If they don't want him back and he decides to return they can just inform him he will be the backup to Love - I highly doubt Rodgers ego could handle it, and he'd then be amenable to reworking to enable a trade.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 21, 2023 at 10:44 am
Agree about AR's ego could not accept even being told he would be competing with Love for the starting QB position let alone being told he will not be the starter.
Remember though...Rodgers has indicated he does not want any part of a rebuild. Should AR say he wants to return & the Packers indicate Love is the starting QB that alone should be enough that the Packers are in a rebuild.
Packerpasty
February 21, 2023 at 07:18 pm
Ha ha...as if MLF and the brain trust?? would ever tell him that...your dreaming...
Swisch
February 21, 2023 at 11:11 am
What's disgusting, or at least demeaning, is the Packers groveling to arrogant Rodgers for three straight offseasons of holding the team hostage to his whims, and apparently granting him undue intrusion in coaching and personnel decisions.
Has Rodgers ever really denied that he initiated the subversion of Draft Day 2021 of saying he was hugely upset with the Packers?
Did he ever apologize for trashing the front office when he finally deigned to come back to the team later that year on the eve of training camp?
Since then, has he ever shown genuine signs of changing his attitude from that of a pampered jerk?
Anything would be better than this for anyone who cares about the Packers and has a shred of dignity.
***
It so happens, however, that we have a very promising replacement in Jordan Love.
It's time to start building him up and giving him every opportunity to succeed.
Tundraboy
February 21, 2023 at 10:26 pm
I'm not so desperate to win without my dignity intact. Perhaps the team doesn't either. How that manifests itself with this cast of characters remains to be seen.
beerandbrats
February 21, 2023 at 11:24 am
Thanks Cory, great discussion! I'm thinking an Aaron Rodgers revenge tour is just around the corner! It's unfortunate because I believe a trade to Vegas is a win-win for both sides. The Packers are able to move on and AR12 can extend his career by playing in a dome. After all, the frozen tundra is no place for old men!
PatrickGB
February 21, 2023 at 11:36 am
Voiding contracts are a start. https://packerstalk.com/2023/02/21/packers-voided-offseason-contracts-re...
pantz_bURp
February 21, 2023 at 12:23 pm
Thanks for sharing this link PGB
stockholder
February 21, 2023 at 12:34 pm
But No Bahk ?
That will come after Rodgers.
Coldworld
February 21, 2023 at 01:43 pm
Those are contracts with specific language that automatically voided them today (as they contain subsequent designedly void years for cap deferral reasons). Bakh’s does not have that.
There has been no action taken by the Packers today, other than not to renegotiate them before today. This was always scheduled.
Campbell’s contract voided like this last year before he signed his new one. These players, the most significant being Amos, are now free agents. Amos has 7 million of dead cap we will be carrying and others have some.
dobber
February 21, 2023 at 01:15 pm
This needed to happen. They could've brought many of these guys back, but would it have required more void years and throwing more good money after bad? The cap needs to get healthy and the team needs to get younger.
greengold
February 21, 2023 at 04:31 pm
Good to know, and thanks for the share, Patrick!
WestCoastPackerBacker
February 21, 2023 at 02:00 pm
Time for more conjecture! How fun. Bob McGinn? That's who you're gonna rely on? Him with a long-time vendetta against Rodgers and GBP because they didn't welcome Favre back with open arms when he un-retired?
How many times have we read awful articles about Rodgers and about GB only to find out in hindsight none of it was true? But just keep on conjecturing?
What are sportswriters for the rest of the NFL writing about? Maybe try some of that, until the QB issue is settled.
NorCalPacker685
February 21, 2023 at 04:49 pm
I am sooo over this guy. Sure, he's been an all time great and has played some of the best regular season football this side of Peyton Manning... but the Packers giving him the contract they did was so dumb. He obviously re-committed himself once they drafted Love, just as an F-U to the team. He didn't play well for the good of the team, he played well to shove it back into the front office's face. Then get's a huge contract, that pretty much ends the chance for Love to play, and spends the entire offseason on DMT and spewing off about how he doesn't need to be at OTA's to build chemistry with his ENTIRELY new WR core... I'm so jaded at this point. I used to not be able to even think about life past 12, but now I can't wait for it. We might suck for a year or 2, but I have faith it will build camaraderie within the locker room once Gramps is gone... Thanks for the memories and multiple playoff 3 and outs, Aaron.
Tundraboy
February 22, 2023 at 07:13 am
I love this. Cathartic for me
Booner
February 22, 2023 at 09:18 am
Bob McGinn and Tyler Dunne are a couple of self-serving hacks! WHO CARES what these morons spew out of their Pie Holes!
Let it play out!