Gutekunst Hire Shapes Long-Term Future for Packers
By jasonperone
The Green Bay Packers have hired Brian Gutekunst as their new General Manager (GM). That was the news shared early Sunday and as Gutekunst was in Houston to interview for the Texans' GM job.
The news came as quite a surprise to many, as it had been widely reported that Russ Ball would be named the team's choice. There were also reports that surfaced throughout the week that the hiring of Ball as GM would not be received well by some in the organization.
Reports that Head Coach Mike McCarthy said he would leave the team if Ball became GM. Furthermore, it was also reported that Aaron Rodgers was not a huge fan of Ball as GM either. Those came from Bob McGinn, former and long-time Journal-Sentinel Packers beat writer.
Some are deeming those reports false and say what you will about McGinn, but he's not the type to put information out there that's not likely true. Not even in his new role as a blogger and one who is trying to attract an audience to subscribe to his website.
Packers President Mark Murphy said he would make the decision as to who the new GM would be. How Murphy arrived at that decision is not known. Gutekunst was likely to leave the team if the Texans made him an offer and the Packers didn't want to lose him.
Did Murphy make a panic decision based on the rumored reaction to Ball and potential loss of Gutekunst? What about Eliot Wolf?
Regardless of how the decision was made, it's done. Gutekunst will serve as general manager and will do so by himself. There will be no co-general managers in Green Bay.
Ted Thompson served as Packers GM for nearly 12 calendar years. Prior to Thompson, Mike Sherman held that title for the better part of four years and prior to Sherman, Ron Wolf was the team's GM from 1991 to 2001.
Gutekunst has been with the Packers for nearly 20 years and has bided his time. He keeps a tie to the scouting side and he's part of the Wolf tree, which has been running the organization for nearly 30 years.
This hire isn't a short-term solution or one to appease anyone. Theoretically, Murphy is tabbing Gutekunst as the guy who will get the team back into the playoffs and competing for Super Bowls. Gutekunst's deal is reportedly for five years.
Russ Ball will presumably maintain his role as Vice President of Football Administration/Player Finance. Many were leery of Ball's lack of scouting acumen if he were to become GM as well as his experience in making actual personnel decisions.
ESPN's Rob Demovsky reported that it's widely believed that Ball, not Thompson, was behind the decision to let Micah Hyde and Julius Peppers leave in free agency. Neither were offered a contract and both were big contributors to their respective team's success this season.
The other argument against Ball was that he was likely to operate too similarly to Thompson and that the Packers wouldn't benefit from the change.
Gutekunst will get to work in trying to keep Wolf and working on the upcoming free agency period as well as the NFL draft. It's too early to say whether the Packers will be as active or more active in free agency but they fell short this past season when injuries hit hard.
Packers players expressed their frustration with having to rely on players who lacked both ability and experience. Will Gutekunst address that need?
The new era begins now as Gutekunst faces a lot of expectations from a fan base disheartened by the lost season of 2017. He'll have the head coach and quarterback in place. Can he get this team back to the NFC championship game sooner than later?
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Jason is a freelance writer on staff since 2012 and also co-hosts Cheesehead TV Live, Pulse of the Pack and Pack A Day podcasts. You can follow him on Twitter here
Comments (154)
cuervo
January 08, 2018 at 06:24 am
"Some are deeming those reports false and say what you will about McGinn, but he's not the type to put information out there that's not likely true. Not even in his new role as a blogger and one who is trying to attract an audience to subscribe to his website."
Ummmm...OK, but essentially nothing he reported about this subject turned out to be correct (not like it's the first time). He's reporting rumor as fact, which sadly has become the norm for "journalists" everywhere.
Gutenkust has many difficult situations and decisions to make.... overpriced vets, numerous free agents, and not a ton of excess cap money. Will be interesting to see how he deals with it.
HankScorpio
January 08, 2018 at 07:09 am
They *had* a ton of cap space prior to extending Linsley and Adams.
While I do like that those guys were retained, the developments after the season ended certainly do raise some questions about how that process went down.
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 07:16 am
I believe they are projected to have around 26 million in cap space. That is after Adams/Linsley deals. That would be before they made any decisions on current players (Nelson, Cobb, Mathews, etc.) Now some of it is probably going to go towards restructuring Rodgers, and some will be for draft picks. But they should be able to go out and get some free agents.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 07:21 am
The signing of Linsley and Adams was smart in that it saves them some in future caps...even though both deals feel a little big right now.
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 07:43 am
It was a good move. Smart decision.
If they do have 26 million available, that is enough to go out and get a few free agents.
The Eagles are projected to be 4-6 million over, which means they will have to cut some players. The Packers could possibly take advantage of that!
Thegreatreynoldo
January 09, 2018 at 04:10 am
$21.5M roughly. Could go down $1.25M or so when RJF makes his claim for severance, which can't be done until February. [Since he is a vested vet who was on the roster for game one, his entire base salary is guaranteed. Vested Vets can only claim that guaranteed money once in their careers, so a the player must submit a claim to the NFL.] We might get some cap money back from Bennett, up to $4.2M. Or we might get squat.
4thand1
January 08, 2018 at 07:50 am
I think Murphy saw what not signing your own FA's cost us this last 2 years. The team would have been so much better with, Cook, Hayward, Hyde, and Peppers. Capers had no idea how to use any of the defensive guys. The Packers made the decision to lock Linsley and Adams up right away and focus on everything else. There was a lot of everything else in the making.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 08:44 am
" The team would have been so much better with, Cook, Hayward, Hyde, and Peppers."
I'm with you on Cook and Peppers. While Cook's usage spiked with the injuries at WR in 2016, and Hundley seemingly couldn't get the ball to any WR whose name wasn't Adams in 2017, the hole at TE was problematic and is something that needs to be addressed this offseason. Nobody filled the void that Peppers left behind...they missed him all year.
As for Hayward and Hyde, I have no reason to believe that the defensive staff would have used Hayward or Hyde any differently than they were using them before. Maybe Hayward and Hyde played well in new digs, but all that does is tease us. I don't believe that level of play would've been likely to show in GB, and we'd be complaining about their big salaries and lack of production.
Doug Niemczynski
January 08, 2018 at 10:50 am
Son Capers sucked thats why the players look like they sucked.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 11:34 am
Thanks...Dad?
Chris Vachio
January 08, 2018 at 02:29 pm
THANK YOU! If Hayward and Hyde had been retained, neither one would be in the pro bowl right now and we'd still be having the conversation about how we need to add more talent in the secondary. Neither one would have thrived under Capers.
Personally, I would just like to have guys in the secondary who can stay on the field. If the guy has had so much as a hangnail during his college career, I say pass at this point.
Finwiz
January 08, 2018 at 12:34 pm
Something tells me they will regret the Adams signing about the time he enters the concussion protocol for the 3rd or 4th time.
That was a bad deal.
We'll see soon enough.
Finwiz
January 08, 2018 at 12:32 pm
He may have been used, to float the story in the media to gauge public opinion. Murphy may have changed his mind after hearing about MM and 12's objections, as well as the fan base furor. The guys on CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, and ANY weather forecaster get it wrong everyday, but they all still have jobs, and we still watch. (OK, some do - present company omitted)
We will likely never know the story.
What seems very clear is - the national search was all a facade.
WKUPackFan
January 08, 2018 at 06:26 am
If McGinn "is not the type to put information out that's not likely true" then let's have McGinn identify the source of his "information". Let's have McGinn explain exactly how he knows the innermost thoughts of MM and AR.
Savage57
January 08, 2018 at 07:45 am
McGinn's SOP is as a relentless detail and fact hound who's been nothing but widely respected by his peers during his entire career and has been awarded pro football's highest honor for a writer.
The only people who question the integrity of his information, work ethic or methods are Packers fanboys who disagree with what he writes and get chapped about him not putting on his Packers sweater and shaking green and gold pom-poms before he writes an article.
cuervo
January 08, 2018 at 08:28 am
"The only people who question the integrity of his information, work ethic or methods are Packers fanboys who disagree with what he writes and get chapped about him not putting on his Packers sweater and shaking green and gold pom-poms before he writes an article."
Respect by others that attempt to pass of rumor as fact and when shown to be incorrect never take responsibility doesn't really mean much to me.
The only people that believe everything they see in print by so called "insiders" are sheep being led to the eternal trough of misinformation.
Turophile
January 08, 2018 at 08:42 am
...."sheep being led to the eternal trough of misinformation."
I do love a well turned phrase. That's worth a 'like'.
McGinn doesn't have the resources he used to, since the Packers wouldn't allow him access, when he returned. On a pay site, you need things that make people want to join. If those things turn out to be true, so much the better, if not they are soon forgotten.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 08:51 am
The current information maelstrom forces writers and outlets to jump faster and faster at 'stories' in an attempt to be first out and first in the minds of readers. McGinn striking out on his own means that he's a fundamentally different entity now. He's no longer connected to an outlet that's going to, presumably, hold him accountable for what he posts, but he's also unshackled and can move more nimbly and post more based on his hunches and suppositions.
Some point to the Packers denying him a press credential as getting some kind of revenge, but in reality the question is: how many bloggers have had press box credentials over the years? If I start a blog, it doesn't mean they have to give me one. Al, do you have one?
TKWorldWide
January 08, 2018 at 12:21 pm
I'm quick and nimble
I go crazy when I hear a cymbal
And a hi hat
With a souped up tempo
I'm on a roll
It's time to go solo
Finwiz
January 08, 2018 at 12:45 pm
Rollin...in my 5.0
With my rag-top down so my hair can blow
The girlies on standby waving just to say hi
"Did you stop?" No, I just drove by
Kept on pursuing to the next stop
I busted a left and I'm heading to the next block
The block was dead
Yo so I continued to A1A Beachfront Avenue
Girls were hot wearing less than bikinis
Rockman lovers driving Lamborghinis
Jealous cause I'm out getting mine
Still tryin to figure out what that has to do with the Pack...
but I was amused
TKWorldWide
January 08, 2018 at 02:10 pm
Dobber mentioned McGinn moving more “nimbly”, and that’s all it took for my diseased mind to channel Vanilla Ice.
stillwater
January 08, 2018 at 10:12 am
We all have to take responsibility for rationally sorting out what we believe to be true from misinformation. People who tell me they have it all figured out I believe the least.
As to the McGinn piece, I see a lot of people bagging on it but I haven't seen anyone point out in it what was manifestly false.
Nagler and Wilde both commented on it and weren't totally dismissive.
HankScorpio
January 08, 2018 at 08:32 am
McGinn is in business for himself now. His priority is to run a successful business. His clientele is other reporters and people that use terms like "Packer fanboys" and "green and gold pom-poms". It's smart business to give them juicy and explosive click-bait.
That doesn't make anything he says untrue. But it offers perspective.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 08:52 am
Ding! Ding!
He's making his money on appealing to the crowd that only feels happy when they're complaining.
Now that his whipping boys are leaving, what's he going to do?
Thegreatreynoldo
January 08, 2018 at 09:15 am
The packers don't give out credentials to any bloggers unless they are directly related to traditional media. APC doesn't have credentials. Packer Report is credentialed because they are affiliated with CBS sports and Scout. The falcons and Chiefs credential the local SB nation affiliate. Per Evan Tex Western at APC. I guess it's CBS sports >Vox/SB nation.
McGinn noted Greg Bedard of Bostonsportsjournal.com is credentialed by the Patriots, Red Sox, Bruins and Celtics. Gary Shelton, founder of garysheltonsports.com in Tampa-St. Pete, said he immediately received credentials for pro and college teams across Florida. Craig Coustance, sports editor of The Athletic’s new venture in Detroit, told me the Michigan pro and college teams all were welcoming. Dejan Kovacevic, founder of DK on Pittsburgh Sports, said he was welcomed by every pro and college team they cover in Pennsylvania.
No idea though if a majority of NFL teams credential large, popular bloggers. I imagine Skip Bayless would have no problem securing credentials from GB. Go figure.
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 10:01 am
Only because FOX Sports would request it for Bayless.
Qoojo
January 08, 2018 at 10:14 am
You are quite right on appealing to the crowd of complainers. Bob is the equivalent of tabloid reporter. His current flood of unsubstantiated rumors are suppose to get a pass based on his past knowledge and credibility, "Bob wouldn't do that". But the Ball hiring rumor mongering was shown incorrect. He is held to no standards now.
It's kind of like how Florio at pft got started. Post every rumor, and get clicks/traffic going. All the incorrect rumors are quickly forgotten. But look at how much talk was generated with that incorrect Ball hiring rumor. Florio eventually got accepted and partnered with NBC giving him more credentials, and is now treated like a regular source. Bob McGinn's dream no doubt.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 10:18 am
McGinn now has the power to shape his product however he likes. I think that's got to be empowering to him and I hope he's enjoying it. It's just not something I partake in.
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 11:48 am
Yeah, I'm not really sure how Bob posting he was told that Ball was the front runner is any worse than folks here declaring that Ball would be a total disaster.
Either way, it doesn't matter anymore.
Coldworld
January 08, 2018 at 12:57 pm
Well one distinction would be that he posts for open consumption implying or claiming inside sources.
Here, we discuss opinions amongst ourselves based upon what people like Bob McGin write as we have no inside connections.
Thegreatreynoldo
January 09, 2018 at 04:15 am
Qoojo - Ball may have been the front runner at one point. When it leaked it raised considerable backlash from fans, writers, perhaps MM and maybe the executive committee. All we do know is that Ball did not get the job.
NickPerry
January 08, 2018 at 06:33 am
I for one am REALLY excited about the Brian Gutekunst as the Packers new GM. I'd been happy with either Gutekunst or Wolf but I think Murphy got this one right. How exciting is it to know the Packers will be once again players in Free Agency. How awesome is it to know some trades might be on the horizon and I'm not talking about a trade to acquire MORE 7th round draft choices.
"ESPN's Rob Demovsky reported that it's widely believed that Ball, not Thompson, was behind the decision to let Micah Hyde and Julius Peppers leave in free agency."
THIS was one of the main reasons I was so adamant about Russ Ball not becoming the Packers new GM. Not so much just because of THIS move with Peppers and Hyde, but because I could see it happening again and again in the future. Russ Ball is an excellent piece to have in the Packers organization, but let him do what he does best and that's negotiate contracts. Hopefully the Packers can hang onto Wolf for at lest a year or two but the guy has to be disappointed.
One question... What in the HELL was Thompson doing allowing Ball to make ANY decision on who stays or doesn't?? If this is true then Thompson should have been removed long before this year. Just like many of us have suggested for at least 2 or 3 years. better late than never!
GO PACK GO!!! Now go get Vic Fangio tonight at midnight McCarthy and we're well on out way!
WKUPackFan
January 08, 2018 at 07:05 am
Please understand that the following is not a personal criticism of/personal attack on you Nick.
OK, let's breakdown Demovsky's report. He reports that "it is widely believed" that Ball was behind the decision. Widely believed by who? People inside the organization? Alleged friends of Ball, TT, Wolf, Gutenkunst, or MM? Are we to believe that Murphy would allow Ball to have such authority?
Isn't it more likely that the decisions were made in the manner in which everyone reported that the front office operated for years? Ball's role was to calculate and provide the information regarding the effect of player moves on the salary cap situation. TT used that information as one part of his ultimate authority on player moves and contract negotiations.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 07:22 am
Yep. Ultimately, TT had to make that call. Give Ball a humpback and he's Igor...
stillwater
January 08, 2018 at 07:27 am
I see no reason to doubt that Ball was under serious consideration. He was said, and no, I didn't see it so I don't know absolutely, to be spending time on the scouting side of the business. Why would he be doing that if he weren't interested in the GM role?
I think McCarthy's press conference, in which he basically insisted that he would have a say in who the GM was, indicated something was amiss. Who has a say in who their boss is? From what I read I am inclined to believe Demovsky's report. It jives with what Nagler and Wilde have been saying. Unless they're consiring.........
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 07:40 am
"Who has a say in who their boss is?"
I have, several times. Sometimes who you report too is for business purposes and your Role is different because you know more abut your job than your boss does. This case exists for Knowledge Workers quite often. I doubt anyone on this site would say Thompson, or Ball know more about being a Head Coach than McCarthy (Even if I sometimes doubt Mike knows enough about it :D).
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 08:53 am
Yep. Me too. I just helped hire my new boss this fall.
stillwater
January 08, 2018 at 10:30 am
Shows how low on the totem pole I am.
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 11:37 am
It has more to do with the type of business than overall stature.
carlos
January 08, 2018 at 05:25 pm
You’re right. I always had bosses, but they left me alone because they didn’t know everything thing I did. The work got done and they didn’t have to worry about me. They had bigger things to worry about. Like Belichick says, Just do your job.”
carlos
January 08, 2018 at 05:28 pm
How did Ted put it. “That decision is above my pay scale.” Something like that. I was always on the lower end of the pay scale. lol.
NickPerry
January 08, 2018 at 11:16 am
We've been hearing for over a year more and more of the moves done within the organization were done by someone other than Thompson.
I'm sure you're right but my disgust for Thompson RUNS DEEP! At the end of the day I can't let go of PISSING AWAY the last several years doing NOTHING in Free Agency or by way of trade. IMO that's ALL on Ted, especially if everything is run by or okay'ed by him anyways. IMO Thompson has cost the Packers SB Titles or at least opportunities with his crappy drafts and nothing else.
Good to see you posting WKU, you haven't been around as much as you used to be. I thought of you watching the Rams game this weekend. Collins worth made a comment about Tyler Higbee from WKU being an excellent blocking TE.
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 07:07 am
I agree pretty much with everything you have said.
I find it interesting that we know who our OC will be. Who our GM is. And as of right now we don't know who our DC will be. It seems like McCarthy is waiting for something. Is he waiting until Midnight to officially be able to hire Fangio? It would make sense.
I hope they do go get Fangio. He is a proven guy who has helped build a great defense in San Fransisco and help turn the Bears defense into a really good group.
With Gutekunst now as the GM, he maybe a guy that would go and get the pieces that Fangio would need/want to make a top 10 type of defense. I think some of the pieces are in place. Just need good coaching and a few other players.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 08:59 am
I think Philbin was low-hanging fruit, too. After the way things went in Indy (especially with Luck on indefinite IR), he wasn't going to get a better gig than what he was going to get in GB. There was no reason for him to hang around for other HCs to be hired and wait for the phone to ring.
I would argue that the difference at DC is that (I HOPE) they're looking at higher-end guys who might be either looking at HC jobs or waiting for a call from new HCs once they're hired. Once the HC vacancies start to fill, I think we'll start to see movement on the defensive side for the Packers.
If a DC can get this defensive unit to play cohesively (and not like a bunch of pigs in a poke), they're several spots better than where they finished this season. If they add one higher-end pass rusher or two decent ones this offseason, they're approaching middle of the pack (assuming the CBs come back healthy).
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 09:28 am
I think Philbin and McCarthy's working relationship makes each of those guys better. At least that was the case when he was here before. Philbin always challenged McCarthy which brought out his best.
I agree about the DC. Fangio I think would be a perfect fit.
Packers finished tied for 17th (with Vikings) for sacks. Total sacks wasn't terrible, but they need guys to create more pressure. Which would allow DB's opportunities at turnovers. They finished tied for 22nd in interceptions.
To add to your point having a cohesive defense would be huge!
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 09:39 am
I argued in the past that the Packers pass rush benefitted from its depth at CB and their ability to hold coverage just long enough for the pressure to get home. This year and last year, that pass rush was just too easily neutralized by decent OLs and the CBs just didn't have it.
Didn't the Packers get something like 15 of their sacks in 3 games? That leaves 22 over the remaining 13...
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 11:58 am
And that's why you can't solely look at stats and relate it to how good a defense is.
Qoojo
January 08, 2018 at 12:00 pm
Someone should work out the standard deviation on the amount of sacks per game.
Coldworld
January 08, 2018 at 01:01 pm
We can’t interview most of the candidates for DC yet.
carlos
January 08, 2018 at 05:32 pm
I agree with you RC. Not much being said about our new OC. I hope it’s official.
Finwiz
January 08, 2018 at 12:50 pm
>One question... What in the HELL was Thompson doing allowing Ball to make ANY decision on who stays or doesn't?? If this is true then Thompson should have been removed long before this year. Just like many of us have suggested for at least 2 or 3 years. better late than never!<
Money....he probably didn't understand the cap aspect, and didn't want to get involved in the dollars a cents, so he left it to Ball. Lot's of people in this world don't give a rip about, or care about looking at a financial budget. This is why the world is full of people that spend more than they make, have credit card debt up to their eyeballs, and end up in financial ruin or bankruptcy at some point in their lives.
HankScorpio
January 08, 2018 at 06:42 am
I think it is very telling that as soon as the Packers interviewed Doug Whaley to comply with the Rooney Rule, the process ended. IMO, that compliance was the entire point of the "consultant" they hired.
IMO, the choice to move TT to another role was made weeks ago and Gutekunst identified as the likely successor. They kicked the tires on Schneider and McKenzie just to see. When that fell through, it was back to Plan A (Gutekunst).
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 07:37 am
yeah, I agree with you Hank.
When everyone was saying Ball was going to be the guy I started to try and ask everyone why? Why was it assumed Ball would be the guy? Why wouldn't it be Wolf or Gutekunst? I never really got any answers on it.
I thought the real decision was between Wolf and Gutekunst. But I think with Gutekunst being about 10 years older and more working experience was the final decision. He was likely a little more ready to be the GM.
HankScorpio
January 08, 2018 at 08:24 am
The only way Ball made any sense to me is that his age lined up with the expected shelf-life of Rodgers. It would make for a clean break to move on from both at the same time.
The stuff about Ball has been percolating for years. I can recall Wilde talking him up last offseason. I think that is about recognizing his importance in the stuff that a GM does that doesn't involve player acquisition. All that stuff is important. But all of it does not rise to the same level of importance as the single duty of player acquisition.
The reason the Packers have had 3 losing seasons in 25 years is that they have an excellent talent evaluation structure in place, put there by Ron Wolf and maintained by TT. I think you need a personnel background to make good hires at the lower levels of scouting, guys that can grow into bigger roles. And keep things moving forward the way you want them to move forward. So I was always thinking it had to be a personnel guy that got named to replace TT.
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 11:09 am
IMO, Ball didn't make sense because of his scouting background, which there wasn't one. While GM's don't have to have a scouting background, that is really one of the best traits for a GM to have. You need a guy to have final say on the roster and who to bring in and who not to. They need to have an eye for talent.
Its a bit drastic to compare to but look at Cleveland for example. They went outside the box and got a GM who passed on Carson Wentz, then took that pick that they received from the Eagles and traded that pick away to the Texans who drafted Deshaun Watson. Which had Watson not messed up his leg, might have been rookie of the year. They traded away from 2 QB's that could have been their franchise players.
Everything I heard about Ball is great. Just for me when you're talking about GM's you really need one that has the scouting background to find and say yes to players. I think he is a great guy to have in the organization. He is great at what he does.
I agree that it had to be a personnel guy.
Finwiz
January 08, 2018 at 12:54 pm
To your 3 paragraphs that conclude with the final sentence, I say...
DUUUHHH!
Your comprehension of the obvious, never ceases to astound me.
I think Murphy floated the Russ Ball rumors with his media sycophants, in a true Ron Wolf act of misdirection.
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 06:57 am
I personally didn't get why everyone was saying Ball was the guy from the beginning. While there was some reports that came out about Ball being the guy, it just didn't seem like the choice from day one to me. Also when I learned that a lot of the reports were from McGinn, I honestly just said whatever and pretty much ignored them. McGinn always seems to have an ax to grind with the Packers. He seems to fish for the dirt and who knows how much of it is true.
I really like the hiring of Gutekunst. He has been with the team for 20 years and was brought up through the scouting ranks. I personally was going to be happy with him or Wolf had they gotten it. In all honesty I had Wolf 1A and Gutekunst 1B.
The reason why I liked Wolf a little more was simply for the fact that for however many years now a lot in the media portrayed Wolf to being our GM in the waiting. That he was the guy that would be Thompson's successor. So I had known his story longer.
But learning more about Gutekunst it sounds like he was maybe a little more highly thought of around the NFL? Both of the guys interviewed for the 49ers job last year. Gutekunst was said to have won the job but he turned it down. This year the Texans were after him. Now there maybe more reasons why Wolf hasn't interviewed with other teams this year. Perhaps he was aiming at GB's job only? Perhaps those around the NFL felt he wasn't quite ready for a GM job? I don't know what the case maybe.
I hope they can keep Wolf. I think keeping him would be really good for the front office, especially after already losing Highsmith.
I am hoping Gutekunst will use every possible way to upgrade the team. Trades, Free Agency, Draft. It sounds like many in the Front Office was growing frustrated with Thompson's lack of activity in Free Agency. Hopefully Gutekunst will use it and will find veterans that can provide talent as well as leadership. I have seen reports that Gutekunst will be a lot more aggressive in free agency then what Thompson was. While I hope it is true, to be honest it wouldn't take much to be more aggressive then Thompson.
croatpackfan
January 08, 2018 at 07:24 am
All those reports "Ball is the guy" cited Bob McGinn insider information!
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 07:42 am
It could be that the Packers let it be known because Ball is the least likely of the three internal candidates that another team would want to hire?
There is another rumor. Publish away :)
croatpackfan
January 08, 2018 at 08:25 am
Possibly...
Bearmeat
January 08, 2018 at 09:53 am
Agreed, RC. This was a very good hire on the face of it. Time will tell....
I would have personally preferred Dorsey, Schneider, McKenzie or Wolf (in that order). But this is better than Ball. I was sure it would be Ball. And To me, it comes down to this: Those first 3 guys I mentioned have a good to excellent established track record in the hot seat. Yes, I know Dorsey was taken. (IF ONLY he’d waited 4 more weeks!) I maintain Murphy could have filed a grievance and gotten permission to interview Schneider though, and McKenzie must have had some assurances that he was still the man in Las Vegas. Oh well.
The other, I admit it’s equating name value. But I refuse to believe that Ted has effected Elliot more than his own father. Plus, EW was director of pro personnel for 4 years under TT. Man, that had to be frustrating! And I would think that after all that pent-up frustration, EW may have been more aggressive in pro player procurement than BG will be. We will see.
I just hope that March is exciting. I want to put the chips, maybe not all of them, but WAY more than we have been, in the middle of the table annually. Hopefully, Gutekunst has the gumption to make some immediate roster upgrading moves.
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 10:11 am
Exactly right Bearmeat. Time will tell. Hopefully they made the right choice!
Myself, I honestly preferred going with Wolf 1A then Gutekunst 1B. I'm not a huge Schneider fan, and McKenzie I'm not sold on either. Dorsey was fired. Since McKenzie and Schneider were with other teams I thought they were long shots. And Dorsey had they wanted they probably would have contacted before he signed with the Browns.
I hope they do actually use free agency as a tool. They don't have to go out and get the top tiered talent. Even getting 2nd tier players would help.
I am really looking forward to both free agency and the draft. It will be really interesting to see what happens here now.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 09:02 am
I can't help but wonder if Wolf's age is a bit of a deterrent. Certainly MLB hasn't been afraid to bring in younger guys to run their shows, but they've moved much more heavily into analytics and video games than the NFL has. If Wolf had been hired, he would be the youngest GM in the league, right? He's going to get his chance...especially if the Packers right the ship in 2018.
Bearmeat
January 08, 2018 at 09:56 am
I think EW's age is probably one of the factors that tipped the scales to BG with Murphy. It's possible that BG will be able to keep Eliot this year (although I've heard that BG won't block him from a sideways move). Although with the top THREE guys in house that didn't get the job... man, that would be some weird water cooler talk!
But I think we need to resign ourselves to the fact that Eliot Wolf will be the GM for another team in the very near future.
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 10:06 am
Hopefully BG is the kind of guy that says...
"Hey, I want to keep working with you guys and I hope you want to keep working here, but if it turns out you just can't be honest and I'll help you find a role somewhere else."
stockholder
January 08, 2018 at 12:06 pm
Wolf senior said his son wasn't WORTHY enough! And Now they Want MM to go to Murphy. Wow . Thats a change from Wolf Sr.& TT . To many things happened with TT. Sitton leaving, Hyde, Lang,Hayward, Datone Jones Lacy,Bennet, and especially Cook. ( I still say no one really knows what went on.) There are to many changes that are happening. The only one justified was Don Capers leaving. Murphy is pertecting Gunt. No doubt about this. The union in Murphy will come out!!! I see MM leaving. I think were under estimating what really is about to happen. I see a total collapse of the packers after A-ROD. Anybody with talent will leave just like Bennet.
carlos
January 08, 2018 at 05:44 pm
I know Wolf has been promoted to keep him around and would like to see something like that done again. It may not be possible, but it’s something I can hope for.
FAN24583
January 08, 2018 at 07:00 am
Yes TT allowing TT to decide who stays/goes is pretty alarming. TT is not all there , I have said it for years now.
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 07:10 am
There have been reports in the past that many speculated that Thompson had some health issues. I saw somewhere that someone or some people thought he possibly had a stroke that he had post stroke like symptoms.
I do hope the best for him personally. But if any of those reports are true, I think him stepping aside (removed) from the GM spot was the best thing for the team.
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 07:45 am
Me too.
I may not agree with everything TT did but I'm sure he did what he believed was good for the Packers. Including stepping back when it was time.
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 08:09 am
Definitely.
And also with him, he has a great eye for talent. Keeping him with the team in a role that better suits him at this time I think is a huge thing.
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 08:18 am
Hopefully Gutekunst does not make so many size/speed/injury exceptions in the draft as TT did.
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 10:33 am
I also hope he makes selections that better fit what the coaches want to do. For example. Draft a 5 Technique DL to play the 5 Technique. Don't draft a NT to play it. Draft a press corner to play bump and run. Don't draft a zone CB to play bump and run...
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 11:40 am
If Capers couldn't make the players on the field understand what he was trying to do then it's possible TT wasn't completely sure either...
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 11:59 am
Touche...
carlos
January 08, 2018 at 05:53 pm
Funny, but possible.
carlos
January 08, 2018 at 05:50 pm
Agree 100 percent Jeremy. He is a knowledgeable hard working guy who can go back to his first love. The pressure is off and I believe he can be very productive in his new role.
Handsback
January 08, 2018 at 07:17 am
Who knows if we (readers) were punked by McGinn and the press or not. What does matter is the LOFT issue on the Packer's squad. That needs to be cleared up.
carlos
January 08, 2018 at 05:52 pm
Maybe McGinn did the Packers a favor.
stillwater
January 08, 2018 at 07:18 am
Good hire I think, along with Philbin returning it's been a good off season, so far. To those trying to discredit McGinn, and for some reason, journalists in general, can you tell me how the hire of Gutenkunsts doesn't jive with his article. It sure looks to me like McCarthy exerted pressure to hire BG.
WKUPackFan
January 08, 2018 at 08:15 am
Let's be sure to differentiate those who are discrediting McGinn individually from those who discredit journalists in general.
For example, there are those of us who understand that the use of unnamed sources is absolutely necessary to expose important issues. Some of us were around during Watergate. However, many times those unnamed sources come to light after the subject story has past into time.
On the other hand, McGinn has existed for years claiming to have anonymous scouts, etc. as sources. The identity of those alleged sources has never come to light. Combine that with McGinn's open hostility toward the Packers, the conclusion to be drawn is fairly obvious.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 09:06 am
A lot of what is published in sports, especially for a guy like McGinn who has made his way as both a reporter and an opinion columnist, can be done like in politics: this is what happened, this is what I think it means and this is where we need to go. Anonymous sources have always held some kind of cache in media circles. The difference, at least to me, is that the level of 'fact-checking' isn't the same or held to the same standard in sports as in politics. Either way, people are going to form an opinion and gravitate to the outlets that tend to support them.
Thegreatreynoldo
January 08, 2018 at 09:22 am
I've decided to let this one go.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 10:11 am
;)
carlos
January 08, 2018 at 05:59 pm
If you reveal your sources you break the bond of “trust.”
Houndog
January 08, 2018 at 07:27 am
Happy it's over, now we can get back to barking about Assistant coaches and who's out or who's in.
We all read a lot of stories about the three internal candidates and the only thing I gleaned from that was that I didn't want Ted's confidant, Russ Ball !
My heart had me leaning towards Wolf while he seemed to be getting the least amount of press and no outside interviews..
At the same time everything I read about Gutey was positive, and he seemed to be a hot prospect elsewhere, so I'm happy with the decision, and anxious to get this thing rolling in the right direction.
Hopefully that will start with MM getting a Vic Fangio (or???) on board within the next couple days and one more step will have been taken.
Not that his season was spectacular, or even good, but I think HHCD's concerns have to be addressed as well. If indeed guys in the locker room were playing for 'themselves' as he stated, and maybe it was the result of guys just giving up on Capers but maybe there's some weeding out needed in that area. The "D' needs a huge make-over, and it needs to start immediately.
Best wishes Gutey, we'll all pulling for you, now let's see what you're made of.
fthisJack
January 08, 2018 at 08:15 am
i can sympathize with HAHA on the frustration with the defense and all the chaos that seemed evident game after game. what i don't like is him giving up and not playing his best no matter what. he was absolutely horrible all season and he needs a good ass kicking for not playing to his potential. play hard every play or get the eff out of Dodge and cut the excuses. maybe you aren't that good after all!
FAN24583
January 08, 2018 at 08:34 am
Agreed on HHCD!!
Razer
January 08, 2018 at 09:32 am
So true about Ha Ha. McCarthy looks like he wants to be friends with Ha Ha by not giving him the same speech as he gave Randall. Ha Ha needs to play a lot better if he is going to stand there and point fingers.
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 10:10 am
I think this issue is yet another where MM would have been better served by just moving on rather than winging comments that insult our intellegence. His answer could easily have been.
"Look, Ha Ha is not the biggest topic on my plate right now. We'll review his performance in the off season and he'll get appropriate feedback and be ready for next season."
carlos
January 08, 2018 at 06:01 pm
Maybe he was playing hard. He just regressed. Let’s hope he can get it together under a new coordinator.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 09:42 am
The Packers needed someone to stand up and take charge of that defense. HHCD could have been that guy. Instead, nobody did and the Packers are home in January. It makes anything HHCD says publicly ring hollow.
croatpackfan
January 08, 2018 at 07:26 am
I suppose that Mike Murphy had his plan - look to bring Schneider if possible, if not look at McKenzie, if not next best is Brian Gutenkunst...
That sequence I made by logic of most experienced to less experienced person - not by quality of the person...
And that logic looks me just fine, if we are talking business.
Last mention on Bob McGinn - I realy respect his work as Packers beat writer, but I feel and think he is so bitter now that he will write down a lot uncertain speculation, just to show he is still in game. Do not forget he did not receive journalist pass after he retired...
It is pitty. His insight and knowledge should not be wasted on the announcement like it was last two (Ball & McCarthy)...
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 07:48 am
"Do not forget he did not receive journalist pass after he retired."
Want to know why they current Packers beat writers wouldn't press really tough questions? Bob did for decades and now he's locked out.
On another note, I've sent a lot of emails to journalists over the years and many times my questions get ignored. Bob McGinn answered every question I asked him, and usually promptly.
croatpackfan
January 08, 2018 at 08:27 am
Jeremy, that is what I said. It is pitty that guy like Bob turned to the blind street...
I hope he will learn from this epizode and hge will continue his quality work...
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 09:08 am
McGinn is doing PR for his business. It's in his interest to keep you feeling attended to. Journalists don't necessarily have that function.
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 10:11 am
All of this was when he was a journalist.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 01:04 pm
Oh...well, in that case, I stand down...
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 07:24 am
"The other argument against Ball was that he was likely to operate too similarly to Thompson and that the Packers wouldn't benefit from the change."
If Ball could hit on 80+% of his draft picks, then I wouldn't care if he functioned like TT or not. It's just that living in the TT world leads to nearly impossible requirements on the draft.
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 07:51 am
Nobody hits 80% of there draft picks. Go look at first rounds from years back in Wikipedia. It's shocking how few of them ever make the Pro Bowl or All Pro. Only about 30% in the first round become notable NFL players.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 10:16 am
We agree!
I think obvious mIsses are easy to identify, but I would call Jeff Janis a hit. Is he an all-pro or a blue-chip WR? No. He's a 7th rounder with a defined contributing role on the team, and he's good at it. Randall is showing signs of becoming a hit. Hundley is clearly a miss. I don't think we should confine the definition of a "hit" in terms of post-season accolades or even draft status. Those things can make those players easy to identify, though.
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 11:43 am
Lot's of grey area. It's just surprising how many don't workout.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 01:05 pm
I'd like to go back to having a roster where every other team on the league is watching closely to see who you cut...at least more so than most other teams.
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 07:34 am
"Not even in his new role as a blogger"
Sort of ironic from my view as I remember him giving the cold shoulder to Nagler at training camp on year and Nagler posting a video of it on Cheeseheadtv. Now Nagler is on Packersnews and McGinn has his own blog...
Donster
January 08, 2018 at 07:48 am
Personally, I hope that The Guuter's first move as GM is to comb TT out of the organizations beard. Whether he is healthy or not. Even more so if he isn't healthy. You don't need someone who has possibly had a stroke or suffering from the effects of early dementia running your scouting department. I don't mean to sound cruel, as I have seen the effects of dementia and stroke in my own family and it is terrible for the person and the persons family. Prayers to TT if indeed he has some type of illness. I don't wish dementia, Alzheimers or a stroke on anybody.
I sounds to me that McGinn is the type of journalist that is self promoting, and either makes up stuff to try and make his reporting sound relevant and to satisfy his own readers. Like a Rush Limbaugh type. Not a true journalist anymore, but a agenda guy that stirs the pot to make $$. Much like most of the news media of today, on both sides of the aisle.
carlos
January 08, 2018 at 06:07 pm
He should work for CNN.
egbertsouse
January 08, 2018 at 07:56 am
I was hoping that they would go outside the organization for a new GM with no Packer connections and that guy would drain the swamp. However, I knew it would never happen.
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 08:10 am
Why?
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 08:21 am
10 Playoff appearances and a Super Bowl in 12 seasons is no swamp. Cleveland is a swamp.
Johnblood27
January 08, 2018 at 10:36 am
Trump already has a job...
fastmoving
January 08, 2018 at 10:41 am
not even Cleveland would hire a guy like that.......
fastmoving
January 08, 2018 at 10:39 am
the only guys who still using the "drain the swamp" crap, are the guys who are the swamp. you can see this everyday......
and we are still in the middle of a good run. 93 procent of the NFL would swap with the Pack in a second.......
4zone
January 08, 2018 at 07:56 am
Maybe Murphy used McGinn to put out a smokescreen without him knowing. Told one his guys to leak false info to him or something.
Maybe not. But we can only speculate from the upper rows.
Razer
January 08, 2018 at 08:02 am
... it's widely believed that Ball, not Thompson, was behind the decision to let Micah Hyde and Julius Peppers leave in free agency. Neither were offered a contract and both were big contributors to their respective team's success this season.
The other argument against Ball was that he was likely to operate too similarly to Thompson and that the Packers wouldn't benefit ...
I guess if you are simply trying to start a fight this is considered reporting. I expect better from Jason Perone.
stockholder
January 08, 2018 at 08:10 am
I hope he does work out. But I'm still having a problem with loyalty. He was in Houston. He got picked over wolf. The NFL use to be about play, pride and a ring. It's about Money. Watch the old drafts of the 80s and you'll see what I mean. With Free Agency the spot light is on money. And more teams will forget about the draft. ESPN does not show the entire draft anymore. The names change to quickly now. Gutekunst is predicted to sign more free-agents. The Packer Hall of Fame will change too. ( To 2 year wonders.) I try to hold on to my beliefs that the Packers will put winning ahead of money. Hopefully will see a super-bowl trophy again during GuteKunst years.
WKUPackFan
January 08, 2018 at 08:20 am
Was I dreaming when I saw all seven rounds of the draft on television the past several years?
jeremyjjbrown
January 08, 2018 at 08:25 am
With a few of those picks I was I hoping I was...
stockholder
January 08, 2018 at 12:11 pm
The NfL network has taken over. But it's not as good as the earlier shows with Zimmerman, Swami, Bob.etc. Kiper is not enough. They did more trading too.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 09:20 am
As soon as FA started, names changed much faster, yes. The salary cap makes it more an more important for teams to be able to score in the draft and with UDFAs so that rosters are regularly stocked with productive players on rookie contracts. Otherwise, they're losing young, productive players too frequently to maintain their roster depth...sound familiar? And the Packers didn't even have cap problems.
"The Packer Hall of Fame will change, too. ( To 2 year wonders.)"
At this stage, I'm uninterested in any impact on the Packers HOF. I doubt that it will much change the dynamic for getting in. Desmond Howard isn't in the Packers HOF. We don't live in the 80s anymore...or the 90s. The NFL has changed and it's not going back. The Packers need to find a way to excel in the current NFL, not the NFL of Ron Wolf or Robert Parins.
Razer
January 08, 2018 at 08:19 am
The Packers had a good situation with this GM search. We had 3 strong internal candidates and picked one that checked all the boxes. Will we lose people because of it - most certainly. That is the way these decisions play out. Gutekunst will assemble his own team and we, hopefully, will see a new mode of operating. If Ball or Wolf leave, maybe Gutekunst will find better people.
The hardest part of this selection will be our ability to pronounce Gutekunst. Go Packers!
carlos
January 08, 2018 at 06:11 pm
Like your positive outlook Razer.
fthisJack
January 08, 2018 at 08:31 am
i'm kind of excited about how the offseason will play out with a new GM! looking forward to FA and then the draft. i expect a few surprises along the way and i'm hoping that Gutekunst brings more outside the box thinking than TT.
the main thing now is to get a DC that will turn this D into a top half and then top ten while Rodgers is still playing. let's get another SB!
Chuck Farley
January 08, 2018 at 09:19 am
My gutt still says human nature is at play here. No one in pack org wants to make it look like something is wrong. Ergo the GM and yet to be named DC will be from inside.
I mean a new DC from outside would look at this bunch and want to toss a lot of guys and bring in fa's and draft heavy. So we're still talking money here and Ted kept his job a long time being cheap. I say cheap is still the objective. The DC is already on the team
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 09:21 am
I think Mulder and Scully thought the same things...
Qoojo
January 08, 2018 at 09:50 am
"Buffalo will never win [superbowl] while I am around"
That was a funny conspiracy in the 90s from the show
WKUPackFan
January 08, 2018 at 09:41 am
The "being cheap" opinion is about as tired as you can get, especially coming from people who turn around and criticize the Adams and Linsley signings, as Chuck has done on numerous occasions.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 09:47 am
NFL teams are all flush with cash, and there's no owner in GB to be using the team as a status symbol and investment, sponging off profits to buy private jets and golf courses with.
There's a salary cap, and there's a salary floor (figured over several years of cap numbers), too. The Packers come nowhere near the salary floor. They could be monumentally cheaper. If cheap was the goal, they're failing at it.
Johnblood27
January 08, 2018 at 10:39 am
Websters defines NFL Cheapskate as...
Mike Brown, Cincinnati Bengals
fastmoving
January 08, 2018 at 10:46 am
and being cheap is nothing bad, way better than being expensive.....
Spock
January 08, 2018 at 09:54 am
Glad all the (unnecessary) hand-wringing about Ball possibly being the next GM is over! My feelings about McGinn's current "reporting" has been pretty obvious here on CHTV. Speculation on whether Ball was the one letting Hyde and Hayward go seems like another "rumor" reported as fact by Jason in this article. I think it has been pretty amusing that many of the same people who were saying that TT was "losing it" or "having mental issues" are the same ones speculating that if Ball got in somehow TT would be the puppet master pulling the strings behind the scenes; hilarious! At least now we can go on discussing Philbin's signing as OC and the new WR coach (Hoestler?) signed from the colts. Back to actual football discussions soon after the new DC is named. Thank goodness. Should make for more dignified back-and-forth here then we've seen in the last week! :) Go Pack Go!
jasonperone
January 08, 2018 at 08:23 pm
Spock, you're taking exception to my reporting that Ball was behind the decision to let Hyde and Hayward go. I have to question if you read the piece as I clearly state that it was Micah Hyde and Julius Peppers who were the players in question. Furthermore, the comment was clearly credited to ESPN's Rob Demovsky and his words were "it was widely believed" that Ball was behind that decision. You call that my having bought into and believing that Ball DID, in fact, make that decision, but that's a very loose translation. My language may sound like I was using that as evidence against Ball. My intention was to provide a legitimate example to illustrate general questions about Ball's involvement in those decisions and his fit to be GM of the Packers.
Before we start questioning facts and reporting of false truths, let's get the actual facts and words straight in our accusations, deal?
Qoojo
January 08, 2018 at 09:59 am
I have no idea if this guy will be good or not. I am looking forward to next season mostly due to the DC change.
Now the ones calling for big FA involvement, I hope they realize that it's not possible to do that most years due to salary cap. If you spend big one year, then you are out of the FA hunt for a year or two. If you go too wild, then you end up in salary cap hell, and end up letting your great OL players go like TT did at the beginning.
But you need FA players to supplement the misses in the draft, and every team has misses in the draft. You can't ignore FA completely like TT did, unless you hit on most draft picks.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 10:20 am
An interesting development if it proves true...
https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/01/browns-pursue-eliot-wolf
RCPackerFan
January 08, 2018 at 10:44 am
I saw that last night. Honestly it wouldn't be surprising.
Now it will be interesting to see how Gutekunst plans on realigning the front office. Will Wolf get a new title? More responsibilities? We don't know. Maybe Wolf will want out now. But if its a lateral job is that better?
Rob Demovsky reported that don't be surprised if he ends up with the Browns shortly.
Qoojo
January 08, 2018 at 11:58 am
packersnews is reporting that MM, Gutekunst, and Ball will all report to Murphy.
Which raises some interesting questions, and sounds like a dysfunctional structure. I think the browns had something like this, and the 49ers when they were really bad. packersnews was speculating that the GM won't have the power to fire the coach now.
Anyone know of a previous instance where the GM was not managing the coach that worked?
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 01:08 pm
Apparently Seattle and Pittsburgh use this structure, too.
zeke
January 08, 2018 at 01:08 pm
It depends on how you define "worked," I guess. Pittsburgh, Seattle, and (I think) Kansas City are a few.
Houndog
January 08, 2018 at 12:05 pm
JeeZus,
For a moment or two we thought everything was headed in the right direction, Bob Harlan called Gutekunst a great hire, Executives around the league said the same thing, and things were once again "All Good" in Packerland.
Then the Packers pull this re-structuring thing, they give Ted's old title to Ball , and change things to where EVERYONE, i.e. Gutekunst, Ball, and even McPuffy now report directly to Murphy, the same guy that kept TT on board for 5 years too long!
So much for the 'Ron Wolf Way' and the 'GM' title!
WTF?
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 12:58 pm
There are several teams in the league--including Seattle and Pittsburgh--who have this model. Give it a chance and let's see what happens.
Houndog
January 08, 2018 at 01:15 pm
I read that too dobber, and I'm willing to give it a chance, and it would be ridiculous to use the excuse "if it ain't broke don't fix it" cuz we both know it's been broken for a while now.
But from where I'm standing it looks like Murphy had a hand it in being broken by hanging on to TT for too long and then not having the balls to totally remove him.
And now, he's putting himself in the position of the "Owners" you speak of with the two teams you mentioned.
Is this power hunger, or ?????
Edit:
Or, could it be the Executive Committee finally told him to "Get Control" or "Get Gone"!
Coldworld
January 08, 2018 at 01:09 pm
I don’t see anything intrinsically wrong with this structure except that it basically makes Mark Murphy the new TT in terms of final decision making, albeit with BG running the personnel evaluation and recruitment.
One could argue Mark Murphy is the big winner here. I am not sure how I feel about this.
Houndog
January 08, 2018 at 01:20 pm
"One could argue Mark Murphy is the big winner here. I am not sure how I feel about this."
That's exactly where I'm at Coldworld, the guy sits back and watches it go to hell, lets it go to hell, and then elevates himself to 'Owner' status while keeping his two security blankets, Russ and Ted around to pat him on the back.
Like everyone else I read most all the articles last week, and I saw Murphy's news conference regarding TT.
But, you won't convince me TODAY that the EC had nothing to do with Ted's removal.
WKUPackFan
January 08, 2018 at 01:43 pm
If you think that eight straight playoff appearances constitutes watching and letting it go to h*ll there really is no helping you.
dobber
January 08, 2018 at 01:27 pm
I don't know how much of a winner Murphy is. I think he's taking a little bit of a gamble in that, if things fall apart further in the short term, he could be the cause of his own ruin. TT had control on the roster and player matters, but over the years many of the other responsibilities he'd had were shunted off to other folks (namely Russ Ball). I would argue that Murphy has much more power than TT ever had...which might be good.
Honestly, it feels more like (and this is just me)...
1. He's trying to give Ball enough of a boost to encourage him to stay. Apparently he and Ball had a good relationship. This helps in that regard.
2. He's trying to create a situation in which they don't have to rely on the chain of command that led to the relative management stagnation of the last few years.
3. He's trying to protect MM.
Houndog
January 08, 2018 at 01:51 pm
Well dobber
He has accomplished one thing for certain, the onus now falls on him, and while I'm surprised he had the balls, that's a good thing!
Everyone will know who's to blame if it stays the way things were/are.
**See my post below**
Brian
January 08, 2018 at 01:52 pm
Prefer the Wolf way....we know that way so we are more comfortable. I guess now that Murphy is through building the tubing hill he wants to mediate the office politics. Not sure this is a good thing. No owner in GB. As long as Murphy doesn't think he knows football operations and he just keeps his "kids" in line.
WKUPackFan
January 08, 2018 at 02:16 pm
"building the tubing hill"
As I've said previously, some people's irrational hatred of Murphy stems from the development of the land around Lambeau. By all means, let's keep the land around the iconic stadium filled with substandard housing. After all, who wants modern activities and things to do augmenting their weekend experience?
Brian
January 08, 2018 at 08:50 pm
A little sarcasm and a poor attempt at humor. Lighten up!!
Houndog
January 08, 2018 at 02:00 pm
Dobber and Coldworld,
Did you know that, prior to the Packer's hiring Tom Braatz in 1987 the Packers offered Ron Wolf the same half-assed version of the GM position Murphy reverted to today?
Ron Wolf turned it down!
Bob Harlan fired Braatz in 1991 and replaced him with Wolf and the true GM system we had until yesterday.
**Edit** Wolf also had an "Escape clause" in his final contract if Bob Harlan were to leave for any reason. Smart man!
WKUPackFan
January 08, 2018 at 02:00 pm
How does having the GM report to Murphy differ from the previous structure? Also, how is having MM and Ball reporting directly to Murphy substantially different? Do you not believe that Murphy had the power to override decisions if he felt that something was amiss? Learn the difference between "reporting to" and "being directed by".
Also, who cares what Ron Wolf did or did not do 30 years ago? And we need a citation on that alleged 1987 situation, one that doesn't come from McGinn.
Houndog
January 08, 2018 at 02:03 pm
Alleged?
Nah, it's documented fact, son!
WKUPackFan
January 08, 2018 at 02:38 pm
Waiting for you to post the citation to those documents. Newspaper story, Packers press release, anything? Imagining it in your head doesn't count.
fastmoving
January 08, 2018 at 04:28 pm
Yeah, who cares what Wolf did a long time ago. Just like TT with 12 he was lucky the Favre trade worked out. Its not the he did everything right.
You just remember 4 and Reggie, like always could have gone the other way too. easy.
And he won only one Lombardy too. just like TT.
point of view is a funny thing, a lot of emotions, not so many hard facts......
one way or another we just dont know......no matter how smart you act. nobody does......
Since'61
January 08, 2018 at 05:52 pm
I'm just glad that the GM search is over. As for the new structure this could be a very smart move by Murphy.
This structure prevents the GM from controlling the message on personnel decisions to Murphy. MM can advise Murphy if he is not getting the players he needs to field a winning team. Ball can advise Murphy if the GM is moving the Packers towards salary cap hell. This could probably happen in the past but now MM and Ball will have equal access to Murphy as the GM rather than going over his head which would be the case in the old structure. Think of it as a check and balance on all 3 positions.
This is also a good way to transition all 3 into working together. Not to mention that Murphy could always return to the old structure. It's not change, it's evolution from a straight line into a matrix. It will be fine. Thanks, Since '61