Joseph's Judgement: Gutekunst to be commended for getting Pack back to what matters most.
Packers' GM has the franchise "locked in" for 2023 and beyond.
By JosephR
The 2023 NFL Preseason is upon us, and quite honestly, I don't think I've ever felt better as a Packers fan.
For the past 5 years, the Green Bay Packers have been at war; a war against expectations and a war within themselves. Whether it was dealing with the pressures of being perennial Super Bowl favorites, the star-studded rosters they sported on both sides of the ball, or living up to the traditions that the champions of yesteryear established...each passing season the stakes only seemed higher. The Packers also faced opposition from within 1265; a quarterback who felt unappreciated, a head coach who seemed to always miss the moment, a defensive coach who couldn't gain the trust of his players, a path that seemed murky...you could ascertain any of these issues as to why the Packers fell short from 2018-2022.
But now those days are over.
This is the most positivity I think I've ever seen emitting from this team in quite some time, and if one man deserves the credit, it's General Manager Brian Gutekunst.
"The ends justify the means", and it's safe to say every year Gutekunst enacted his "means" to get to the endpoint of where the team is today:
In 2018 the Packers saw the end of the Mike McCarthy era, citing a lack of evolution in the Packers' offensive scheme, a defense that looked lost, and two straight years of missing the postseason. While 10 of the 11 members of the 2018 Draft Class are no longer on the team, Gutekunst made the 2018 Draft matter with his very first selection as a General Manager, CB Jaire Alexander; who by many is considered the best CB in the league. Since Alexander took the field the Packers have never ranked less than 14th in the league in passing defense.
2019 was the start of the Matt LeFleur era, and it started off with quite the bang, going 13-3 and making the NFC Championship game; the Green Bay offense had a new lease on life under the tutelage of LeFleur, new Offensive Coordinator Nathaniel Hackett, and new Offensive Line Coach Adam Stenavich. 2019 also saw the selection of Rashan Gary, who is on the cusp of being considered one of the most elite edge rushers in the NFL, and Elgton Jenkins who made the 2019 All-Rookie team and been named to the Pro Bowl twice in his still fairly young career. Gutekunst would also shed the Packers' label of being timid in free agency, signing what would be known as the "Smith Bros" - Za'Darius and Preston Smith, who would combine for 46 sacks between 2019-2020(reg season and playoffs).
Nobody was prepared for 2020, and I'm not talking about COVID-19. Brian Gutekunst rightfully prepared the franchise for life after Aaron Rodgers. The selection of Jordan Love was the league's biggest headline and controversy for the 2020 offseason. It set Aaron Rodgers on fire apparently, as he earned his 3rd MVP award that season and carried the Packers to another NFC Championship appearance. A.J. Dillion, while used sparingly his rookie season has turned into a great change of pace back in relief of Aaron Jones and Jon Runyan Jr has been a steady entity on the offensive line. Tight End Josiah Deguara is positioned to have a breakout year in the wake of Aaron Rodgers' departure; when previously he was little more than an apparition.
By 2021, Gutekunst had built a team that had no excuses as to why it shouldn't at least reach the Super Bowl. The '21 Draft was a reload at certain positions of need, with flashes from CB Eric Stokes, OL Josh Myers, and DL T.J. Slaton. Rasul Douglas, who was probably considered little more than a quality veteran addition to the Packers' secondary, broke out with 5 interceptions and 2 defensive touchdowns(he would register 4 more INTs in 2022). Despite this, the Packers fell woefully short, with a second straight playoff exit at home. Nobody knew it at the time, but it would be the last time we'd see WR Devante Adams in the Green and Gold.
The 2022 Draft may go down as one of Gutekunst's best, but that has yet to be determined. Rookie WRs Christian Watson and Romeo Doubs looked to be the next coming of a potential All-Pro WR Duo, OL Zach Tom looks like he could play anywhere on the offensive line at a high level, while Quay Walker, Devante Wyatt, and Kingsley Enagbare are looking at breakout years on what should yet again be another potentially elite defense. OLB Justin Hollins was another example of Gutekunst never stopping to churn the bottom of the roster and was a much-needed signing for a team that was lacking enough edge rushers after an injury to Gary. Keisean Nixon, a packaged deal with new Special Teams Coach Rich Bisaccia, made All-Pro as a kick returner and is now pushing for more playing time on defense as well. The regular season didn't go the Packers' way unfortunately, as so many new pieces failed to put it together too many times, and the Packers' postseason hopes were dashed in Week 17. Green Bay fans would see Aaron Rodgers walk off the field for the final time as a Packer with fabled receiver and friend Randall Cobb in tow.
But now it's 2023.
Brian Gutekunst is coming off perhaps his best draft ever as a General Manager, perhaps maybe even his best year. The Packers have a young and promising QB that they spent 3+ years developing in the shadow of a Hall of Fame QB. The head coach has complete control of the team without worrying about certain influences, the defensive coordinator has taken the stance of playing to his defense's strengths. On the outside not a soul knows what to expect of this team: playoffs, Top-5 pick in the draft, or just a middling team that needs to address a few concerns.
Regardless, this is probably the most optimism I've seen surrounding a Packers' team in recent memory. The majority are young, hungry, a little unproven, and ripe for development. This roster, this coaching staff, and this front office is focused on nothing more than winning football games. Any essence of controversy is tied to people still talking(and writing) about Aaron Rodgers and the Jets. And while I do wish Aaron and his new team the best(we have a 1st Round Pick riding on it after all), his role on the team is firmly in the rearview mirror. This 2023 team, no matter what happens this regular season, is probably only as low as it's ever going to get, and the sky is the limit.
We've all questioned his motives, questioned his methods, but now we see the fruits of his labor. It's "All Quiet on the Northern Front", and we're all just basking in the serenity.
"In Gute We Trust".....I've never been more confident in that saying.
Bring on the Bengals!!!!
#GPG
Joseph's Judgement will post at the end of every month of the 2023 regular season with a finale at the end of the postseason.
EDIT - A previous edition said Elgton Jenkins was an All-Pro twice,Jenkins was actually elected to the Pro Bowl twice.
A previous statistic for Josiah Deguara's 2 TDs receptions from Jordan Love has been removed as it is an error.
Notable Free Agent signings were not included in the initial post and have been added.
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
__________________________
Joseph has been an avid fan of the Green Bay Packers since 1997, citing an affinity for dairy products during his childhood and his favorite color, green. Born in Jacksonville, FL, Joseph currently is an Active Duty servicemember in the U.S. Armed Forces. Joseph considers himself a lifelong fan of the game of football, competing since his youth well into adulthood. When it comes to the Pack, Joseph is particularly impassioned about the NFL Draft and collegiate scouting process, and will contribute regularly on CHTV.com leading to that year's upcoming Draft. You can follow him on Twitter at @joeyreyallday.
__________________________
Comments (258)
greengold
August 10, 2023 at 06:06 pm
The only time I’ve been happier prior to the start of any season was when Ron Wolf hired Mike Holmgren.
That is saying quite a lot. There was a drought…
The start of the 1997-98 season comes in at #3.
#4 was when Bob Harlan hired Ron Wolf. Tom Braatz wasn’t a thing. He was a situation.
The # of what I consider to be quality talents added with the Packers cap constraints in recent years is remarkable to me. My guess that becomes more apparent by Week 8 this season. Gutekunst’s College & Pro Personnel Department has some serious game.
”He’s an ascending talent.” I can’t think of a better way to put it. No GM is perfect, but I think he has been stacking success.
Nice piece, Joseph. I agree.
Bearmeat
August 10, 2023 at 06:35 pm
Agreed, green gold.
This may not be the best Packers team we've had in the past 10 years (2011, 2014, 2020 had more talent). But it will be fun and the long term potential is very exciting.
To me, this reminds me so much of 2008, it's scary. Hopefully, with a better result than 6-10. The NFCN is a trash fire, so I think this is possible. And 2009 was the start of something really special...
dblbogey
August 10, 2023 at 07:32 pm
Gute has revamped the receiving core in 2 years With Christian, Romeo, Jayden Reed and the 2 tight ends. The DL should be the best we've had since Kenny Clark has been here. Talented ILB's, if R. Gary gets back to full strength and Our 1st round pick contributes, we have some pass rush potential. Still have 2 strong RB's. 1st or 2nd best corner in the league. Josh Myers starting at center and some pretty bad depth on the inside of the OL is a concern. There's a lot of talent on this team, if the OL avoids major injuries and Love plays at just a top 15 QB level, they should be able to score some points. I do hope our kicker isn't a flop. I hear Mason is still working out, ready to go.
Yogididit
August 10, 2023 at 09:27 pm
Our receiving corps is bottom ten in the league, maybe bottom five.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 11, 2023 at 08:40 am
I agree that the WR/TE rooms probably should be ranked in the bottom 10, and possibly bottom 5. The talent level is better than that, so it is a matter of how many rookies can exceed the ceiling that generally applies to rookies in their very first year.
This team really needs Watson to be healthy for the bulk of the season. I think had Watson been healthy for TC and 17 games in 2022, the Packers easily would have made the playoffs. Probably needed to get the #6 Seed (which played #3 seeded MN) to win a playoff game.
Coldworld
August 11, 2023 at 09:31 am
Based on past achievements near bottom.
Based upon my perception of potential, very exciting.
The first is objective but obvious and meaningless. Opposing coaches won’t look at them that way.
The second is wholly subjective and dependent on desire and coaching too. Nevertheless, it’s reasonable to say that there’s more raw potential at WE and TE than in years. Not aimed at you TGR (though you are wrong about Nijman …), but this thread demands a loyal verbal expectoration.
The thing about potential is that it’s not just if it’s realized but when. Sorry, but I see that not blossoming fully this year and I’m pretty confident in that. Love and his catchers are going to be up and down. If they are decent this year, they have the potential to be good next. If they are good this year, well then things are really exciting.
That’s the ride. Expect to bang your heads on the floor and the ceiling. The one absolutely unknowable thing is how well this is going to go. Optimism is one thing, but the certainty about Love, the offense or even LaFleur is just empty belief or desire masquerading as knowledge. That’s the bit that got tedious a long time ago. Those who know the unknowable and can’t stop preaching their faith as fact.
We are on the cusp of actual football, if seeing what will happen. Look forwards … the view is likely to be radically different by mid winter. Open minds, embrace it, and have a hard hat handy.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 11, 2023 at 12:50 pm
No worries. Aim away. Of course I am discussing performance in 2023 only. I thought the WR room in 2022 was worse, with a #3 WR being the #1, and a #4 being the #2 or #3, with hope that Watson and/or Doubs could supplant them. Watson did, but missed 8 games and was a little limited in a couple more. Doubs has talent but needed the proverbial year (I hope that's all it is, as the drops are still there). I feel comfortable that Watson probably will be a #1 in 2023. It isn't clear to me where Doubs and Reed are. I read good things about Doubs in the tweets, particularly from the PFF guys.
I read the new article that suggests Nijman is the best run blocking tackle in the NFL (best run blocking win rate). I shall read any comment you choose to make with real interest. Looks like Ben Baldwin has Myers has the 8th best pass blocking center, Runyan as the 6th best pass blocking RG, and Nijman as the 7th best pass blocking RT (unless Mr. Baldwin has Tom or Jenkins at RT when he published this on July 26th). if that score is indeed for Nijman, why hasn't Gute locked this guy up long term? Ditto for Runyan, though we have no info on his run blocking (though I have seen posters cite low PFF run blocking grades).
Coldworld
August 11, 2023 at 01:22 pm
I was going on my eyes and statistics from ESPN and others on past seasons. If there is a new article, I haven’t seen it. Do you have a link?
Runyon is a good pass blocker and Myers is better there than versus the run, the problem is that while Nijman is decent as a starting level pass blocker thus far, good if you ignore the time at RT without preparation, neither of those has risen above replacement grade in the run game.
Perhaps Nijman is going to if necessity wait till we resolve Gary? As you’ve pointed out, we have very little cap leeway and I’m not sure we can save much on Nijman’s’ current deal. As far as Gute and Ball’s thinking, or even which matters most on these things, I have no idea. I am just going on play before this year.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 01:52 pm
Reed vs Doubs usage is something I plan to watch. I have no doubt they'll both be on the roster. How often they're on the field is less important than how often they're targeted. I'd love to see either #11 or 88 with the most targets at least by the bye if not on the season, but don't think that'll actually happen.
MLF's strategy of getting most of the production out of just a few players vs intentionally distributing the ball to use a thick playbook is another unknown to watch, the case can be made for either approach.
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 02:12 pm
TGR, could it be they have much yet to maneuver with Rashan Gary's extension, maybe Runyan's mid-season extension, and possibly some larger cap hits in dead monies after Gutekunst's forecasted roster cuts for his Final 53?
These guys are planners. They already have a good idea how the ground will shift before our first preseason game!
You're right, with that kind of performance, Yosh Nijman should already be extended...
Please forgive me, but I'm super confused how a bunch of VOID years might affect a Savage cut. ??? If you could shed some light on such a possibility, I'd appreciate it. I'll buy you a beer Thursday!!! LOL
Like, if he didn't make the roster, would we save $5.45M, or would that become a dead cap charge? Would the Packers be on the hook for all those other years, into 2027? Would that accelerate to the point he's impossible to cut???
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 11:17 am
OK, Yogidiot. TROLL.
CheesedDeadHead
August 11, 2023 at 01:28 pm
It's not his fault he has the listing upside down!
barutanseijin
August 11, 2023 at 04:27 pm
I congratulate you for your lightning quick dive to the bottom five of posters. Breathtaking!
greengold
August 10, 2023 at 07:43 pm
Playoffs for the Packers. Either by winning the Division or by Wild Card. It’s all house money in 2023, but I believe this team will go far, if we can stay healthy.
By Week 10ish, we should be hitting on all cylinders.
Shock the world. LFG GPG
Leatherhead
August 10, 2023 at 07:59 pm
GG, if we just win our home games, and beat our division opponents in their own house, we're no worse than the #4 seed. If you want to assume 49ers, Eagles, Tampa then that puts the Packers in the Top 4 of the NFC. Maybe the Top 2.
You know I think the offense is going to score 30 in the opener. Confidence is rising every day.
greengold
August 10, 2023 at 08:24 pm
Leatherhead, I foresee the Packers taking the NFL by storm this season. I’ve never seen this much speed assembled, nor this much young talent with NFL readiness and resumes, and a very smart collection of veterans at key positions.
Jayden Reed is flying around making plays at #2WR level. Luke Musgrave has some incredible potential as does Kraft. Karl Brooks was PFF’s top DE. Wooden is different, but equally as talented. When was the last time we had 2 well developed, enormous NTs on our DL? BJ Raji & Howard Green. I think Ford surprises many. Slaton has become a wrecking ball.
WYATT. CLARK.
LVN needs technique work & development, but, belongs in this NFL. CIN’s #2 OL couldn’t stop him in practice.
GARY. SMITH.
I see a secondary bolstered bigtime. If we get Stokes back? Plus Valentine?
JA. SUUUUL.
Some have written AJJ off at Safety already, before the first preseason game. Anthony knows how to play Safety, has the multi positional experience Barry is looking for, and, Safety positions aren’t won in practice. They are won in games with superior tackling, instincts AND ball skills. Savage, Ford, Moore, Owens, AJJ & Sapp III all enter the battle tomorrow.
???????
Our LB depth is looking improved, OLB & ILB alike.
CAMPBELL. WALKER.
And the Packers return the #2 OL in the NFL per FO, except deeper in development, size & talent.
BAK. ELGTON. MYERS. RUNYAN. TOM.
JONES. DILLON.
All 7 of those players mentioned could carry this team on O while QB1 finds his comfort zone.
Lastly, QB1 Jordan Love has many gifts, but most importantly, he has 100% buy-in on being an extension of HC Matt LaFleur on the field.
STs???
ZZTOP
She’s got legs.
She knows how to use them.
We’re seeing 60 yd FG attempts and 70+ yard punts. AND a Top Fuel BURNER of an All-Pro KR.
NIXON
Coach ‘em proper, Matt! LFG GPG
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 01:56 pm
LH,
man do I agree with this! I still think the team should be better by 2025 but the sky's the limit right now. Facing the Bengals tonight won't really change that even if they're stymied.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 03:51 am
""The ends justify the means", and it's safe to say every year Gutekunst enacted his "means" to get to the endpoint of where the team is today:"
And where are we today?
Hoping to make the playoffs?
Hoping our 4th year QB Gute traded up for works out, because if he doesn't, we start over again looking for that franchise QB we took for granted for 30 years.
Good luck Gute.
Don't forget to thank Murphy at his retirement party for that extension he gave you.
Bearmeat
August 11, 2023 at 06:34 am
Gigantic. Yawn.
Untylu1968
August 11, 2023 at 06:35 am
Did you piss and moan when Rodgers took over for Favre? The entire situation is very similar. The Packers had so much faith in #8 that they drafted two QBs in 2008. That draft should've hurt his feelings more than drafting Love. In the end #8 wanted out and on we roll. Dust off your #4 jets jersey, if you haven't already picked up your #8, and cheer for your hero. Hope he loses every game!
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 05:03 am
" And while I do wish Aaron and his new team the best(we have a 1st Round Pick riding on it after all), his role on the team is firmly in the rearview mirror." - JosephR
What you see in the rearview mirror is 4 MVP's, a Super Bowl ring, a SB MVP, and the holder of a bunch of NFL records. Not to mention one of the greatest QB technicians in NFL history. For most of his career this man didn't have a weak segment in his game.
In the tone of Stephan A. Smith, Joseph ...Don't be disrespectful.
As far as expectations for Love.
Well....why don't we wait until he wins his first NFL game and we'll take it from there.
"IN GUTE WE TRUST!!" - JosephR
We?
When Gute gets that Super Bowl win like Wolf and Thompson did, then maybe we'll have something to talk about.
Bearmeat
August 11, 2023 at 06:35 am
Gute DID put together a Super Bowl roster. In 2020. Aaron Rodgers, the MVP of the year, sucked when it counted and our all pro LT got hurt.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 11:29 am
Yes Bearmeat....thank you for the....It's all Rodgers fault mantra...lol
croatpackfan
August 11, 2023 at 03:21 pm
Your mantra is: Wins are due to FPQB and losses are due to team and coaching staff. Yes, you are right!
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 05:04 pm
"Gute DID put together a Super Bowl roster. In 2020. Aaron Rodgers, the MVP of the year, sucked...." - Bearmeat
***********************
The fact that now unemployed Kevin King got burned giving up 2 easy TD's to Tampa didn't matter?
Or when Adrian Amos, just let Cameron Brate waltz into the end zone uncovered for another easy TD. Didn't matter?
That's 21 easy points given up by the defense against Tampa, but it isn't their fault, it's Rodgers fault.
Rodgers, who clearly out played Brady in that game.
But the Packers lost...GEE, how did that happen, because Rodgers...sucked?
Seriously with this sh...? WTF?
************************
Super Bowl roster huh? But they can't win a NGCCG to get there?
I know, i know....Rodgers fault...lol
It's your world Bearmeat, paint the sky any color you want.
fthisJack
August 11, 2023 at 07:28 am
The weak part of his game later in his career was his head got too big. He was playing GM, coach, and Guru. Hope he gets us the the #1 pick but the Jets still suck!
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 05:06 pm
I KNOW!!!
Rosgers sucked!!!
Amirite?
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 05:09 pm
Well...you boys got what you wanted...get rid of the HOF QB.....
Lets ride with Jordan Love
Strap in Boys...Paradise is here.
barutanseijin
August 11, 2023 at 04:23 pm
I see in the rear view mirror:
Spectacularly poor performance from the Gweatest Packer QueBee Everrr in Divisional round home playoff LOSS.
An INT at the end of the first half to give Tom Brady the ball and a chance to score, followed up by more impotent flailing around in the red zone and yet another home play off LOSS.
The league’s “most valuable” stat padder being shut out in the first half in yet another playoff LOSS.
Poor preparation and unmotivated play in 2022 and at the end of McCarthy’s tenure
The “greatest ever” being the second best QB on the field in playoff exits in 2011-2016. Slow starts and a failure to put the ball in the end zone plague the man from Chico.
BJ Raji proves more valuable in NFCCG vs Bears than his QB, whose best play comes on defense.
#8 fumbles away his first playoff game in OT to begin a career of playoff chokes.
***
In sum, Cal #8 benefited greatly from
being picked by the NFC North Packers. He was able to pad his resume playing the weak sisters of the North, especially later in his career. It’s doubtful he would be considered a first ballot HoFer had he gone to the NFC East or West or the AFC east and been stymied regularly by the Giants, Pats or the Lesion of Doom Seahorks.
The flip side of his luck was that the glittery regular season stats raised expectations beyond what he was able to fulfill. He regularly faltered against tougher competition because he was merely a Bear owner & nowhere near the greatest QB ever.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 05:14 pm
"In sum, Cal #8 benefited greatly from
being picked by the NFC North Packers" - barut something
^lmfao^
Yes, it wasn't ....
The Packers benefited greatly from drafting Aaron Rodgers.....nooooooo lol
Spoiled Packer fans...plain and simple.
A lot of under 45 year old fans are going to be introduced to life in the NFL without a HOF QB.
Enjoy!!
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 05:20 pm
"The “greatest ever” being the second best QB on the field in playoff exits in 2011-2016." - barutsomething
Yes, it was all Rodgers fault the PAcvkers fell about in the NFCCG against Seattle.
Damn Rodgers for letting Brandon Bostick field that onside kick....Rodgers fault!!
LEARN SOMETHING barut.....
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2020/01/08/what-you-re...
Packers2020
August 11, 2023 at 11:27 am
Ummm......we still have the coach who missed critical moments and the D coordinator that the players do not trust.
????
Coldworld
August 11, 2023 at 01:27 pm
I don’t know about the players and trust. I do know that the coaches aren’t Gute’s hires and don’t report to him. I do agree that the questions about them loom large.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 02:00 pm
Yeah lots kept us out of the SB during the MLF era besides just #12AR.
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 02:05 pm
The players don't trust Joe Barry??? WTF??? WHERE DID YOU GET THAT?
I've never heard it said. Not once.
Yogididit
August 10, 2023 at 06:24 pm
Since Alexander entered the league the Packers haven’t ranked lower than 14? 14 what? Also, what years did Jenkins make the all pro team? I can’t seem to find that anywhere.
Praising Gutey for the 2020 draft is a joke. He either thought Love was a can’t miss prospect (he’s obviously not that), or he misread the team so badly that it cost us a SB trip, or two. Had he correctly assessed the team entering a SB window he wouldn’t have drafted for the future.
The only reason Gutey isn’t on the hot seat is because of the lame duck president.
Not a great first article to read here, but it does excite me to read more!
Bearmeat
August 10, 2023 at 06:33 pm
YAWN.
Rodgers choked in 2020. Go look at that ATROCIOUS 2nd half. The MVP of the league HAS to do better in the NFC CG.
The team had the pieces and the player(s) shat the bed. That ain't on Gute.
Packers2020
August 11, 2023 at 11:31 am
And the HC has to do better in big moments of the game and the defense needs to not allow 9-11 3rd downs to be converted and Aaron Jones needs to not fumble on our side of the field.
Give me a break.
barutanseijin
August 11, 2023 at 04:38 pm
If the Greatest Everrrr hadn’t thrown the ball to a Tampa defender , Tom Brady wouldn’t have had a chance to burn Kevin King at the end of the half. Everyone is content to shit on King, but the Choker gets a pass.
barutanseijin
August 11, 2023 at 02:30 pm
Maybe, just maybe, he wasn’t really the emMVee Pee.
greengold
August 10, 2023 at 06:43 pm
Are we seriously going to play who was the R1 WR Gutekunst passed up game? No. Troll.
Yogididit
August 10, 2023 at 07:00 pm
Love was a terrible pick, not even debatable. But what about the second and third rounds? I backup RB in the second round? That’s just terrible. A third round FB who hasn’t contributed in three seasons? All three picks were extremely bad, but I guess you’re too focused on passing on WR to realize that?
CheesedDeadHead
August 10, 2023 at 07:04 pm
Can we get an ignore function?
Yogididit
August 10, 2023 at 07:18 pm
What did I say? I pointed out errors in the article, that should be praised. I voiced my opinion on a draft, the correct opinion by the way. And I said the lame duck president is handicapping the team, which may, or may not, have an impact.
What’s worth ignoring?
Leatherhead
August 10, 2023 at 08:13 pm
Yeah, that's going to be a problem:
""I voiced my opinion on a draft, the correct opinion by the way. ""
Please tell me how "correct" is scored. I'd be interested.
LambeauPlain
August 11, 2023 at 10:35 am
Being arrogant, insulting, and frankly ignorant while promoting a narrative might provide constructive clues.
Good grief, Love, in year 4, just like Rodgers was, is his first year as a starter! Calling him a terrible pick...then saying it is "not even debatable" and your opinion is "the correct opinion" drips of arrogance and devoid of any objective truth...that is called ignorance.
Love is a successful, hard working, talented young man. I hope he continues to succeed. Same for Gutey and the Packers. That's my narrative.
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 04:05 pm
"What’s worth ignoring?"
Oh, this is too easy.
dblbogey
August 10, 2023 at 07:16 pm
New guy with 2 comments has 9 thumbs down. Just trolling?
Oppy
August 10, 2023 at 07:21 pm
By your criteria, Aaron Rodgers was a terrible pick, not even debatable. Are you old enough to remember that whole shit show?
If Love turns out to be a franchise type QB, it was a good pick. Time will tell.
Yogididit
August 10, 2023 at 07:57 pm
Definitely old enough to remember most of that. Definitely smart enough to know that rookie QB contracts are too important to waste sitting on the bench.
The Packers had a first round pick sit on the bench throughout a SB window. That’s a terrible pick, it’s not even debatable at this point. Now if Love turns out to be MVP caliber and gets the Packers back to the SB, we can revisit to see if it was worth the pick.
Coldworld
August 10, 2023 at 11:38 pm
Two words.
False Certainty
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 03:29 pm
I'd pick two different words but yes.
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 04:00 pm
First word: Bumble
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 02:48 pm
Ducking. Stupid autocorrect, it's never ducking!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t1SUfDhvUTM&pp=ygUcQnVncyBidW5ueSB3aGF0IGE...
Coldworld
August 10, 2023 at 11:40 pm
Two words.
False certainty.
coolhand
August 11, 2023 at 09:24 am
That "terrible" pick on Love lit a fire under 12's ass. He was looking old and washed up before that. Had 2 good years after that but chocked each year in the playoffs. As good as he was during the season, he never could quite play as well in the playoffs. At 39, it was time to say goodbye.
Packers2020
August 11, 2023 at 11:35 am
Agreed. But AR fell to us who was supposed to be the overall #1 pick of the draft so it was a no brainer pick. Love was someone we traded up for in the first round and he sat for 3 years and has shown to be very inconsistent so far. And by the way, he was considered a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
There is a difference.
CheesedDeadHead
August 10, 2023 at 06:43 pm
"Not a great first article to read here, but it does excite me to read more!"
Not a good first post, but I'll give you a Mulligan...
dblbogey
August 10, 2023 at 07:17 pm
Just wait until you see his second post.
Oppy
August 10, 2023 at 07:22 pm
Quite possibly the best thing I'll read this month.
I'll keep you updated. LOL.
Packers2020
August 11, 2023 at 11:36 am
Why? Because he posted his opinion? Isn't that what we do here?
Just because you do not agree with someone does not make their post not good.
Untylu1968
August 11, 2023 at 06:58 am
I still can't believe we drafted Rodgers when we already had a three time MVP running the show!
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 04:39 pm
How could we not, my brother? Favre was threatening retirement every year for 3 years straight to that point. Massive "LOOK AT ME" drama...
We had no choice when he dropped to 24. It was very welcome having a new franchise caliber QB fall into our laps at a time we needed that.
Now, I wish Ted did a lot of things. Wish he did try to get Randy Moss. Wish he did sign Marshawn Lynch... wish he did keep Cullen Jenkins...
I talked with Charles Woodson about the Marshawn Lynch thing... LOL He was pissed too, but, a gentleman about it in the moment!
Packman60
August 11, 2023 at 07:58 am
Disagree. Gutey was planning to draft Auik or JJ, but the Vikings unexpectedly took a wideout when OL was a major need and the 49ers leapfrogged G.B . He then pivoted to draft Love based on Rodgers declining production. This put a major chip on Rodgers shoulder that lead him to consecutive MVP seasons and the opportunity to let Love develop. We don't know what Love will become yet. Give him a chance! Rodgers looked like a mistake his 1st 2-3 years in the league and had a losing record his 1st year as a starter. Love could be a mediocre QB or a pro bowl caliber one. We just don't know at this point. He needs a year to hone his skills and grow with his young talent at Receiver and Tight End
JosephR
August 11, 2023 at 11:04 am
I apologize, sometimes my brain moves faster than my fingers. 14th in Passing Defense which is based on passing yards allowed.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 02:04 pm
Yogi,
people here were sick of AR12 by February, if not a year before that. I agree that not getting a WR in the 2020 draft was just strange, and nobody would have traded away a QB who just won back to back MVPs.
Here we are and everything might just come together? Either way the info here is top flight, although in the last week other sources have come to life.
Bearmeat
August 10, 2023 at 06:32 pm
While you can quibble with his 3rd round picks, in general, Gute has been an excellent GM. With one MASSIVE caveat: He let Aaron Charles Rodgers railroad Matt LaFleur's team after 2020. 12 should have been put in his place all the way back in 2021, and traded to the Broncos the second the new league year began in March 2022. Whether that was Gute or Murphy or LaFleur we may never know, and certainly won't for a long while. Regardless, Gute shat the bed there as the primary person charged with player personnel at 1265 Lombardi Ave.
However, that's water under the bridge, and Gute et al have made up as best they could by shipping 12's diva ass to a place where QBs go to die almost as quickly as they do in Chicago. I'm going to enjoy watching that shit show blow up in the playoffs, while the QB there blames anyone but Narcissus staring him in the mirror.
Looking forward: This team is athletic as hell. Love will have growing pains, but I am convinced he is going to become at least a good starter for years. And that's the floor. We'll see about the defense under Barry, but early returns are promising. I have not been more excited to be a Packers fan since 2020 and 2015 (right before Rodgers turned sour) before that. The last two years have been miserable as hell to be a fan of a team that I knew would never improve over 2020 and was just prolonging the long slide into mediocrity or worse.
Gute et al have fixed that and the future is unknown, but exciting! GO PACK GO!
Leatherhead
August 10, 2023 at 07:25 pm
""Gute has been an excellent GM. ""
Bearmeat, we an in agreement here. And as far as "water under the bridge", that's one of favorite descriptions because it doesn't matter anymore, it's about what's here and now....who are we putting on the field and what do we want them to do?
Right now, this looks like a pretty good group if our best players stay healthy enough to practice and play together. We should certainly contend for the division title. But this isn't going to be a cakewalk to 13 wins and plenty of mistakes are gonna happen along the way. As long as we're 5-5 or so by Halloween, and healthy, we're certainly in the hunt for the playoffs and more/,
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 01:22 am
"Whether that was Gute or Murphy or LaFleur we may never know"
It was MLF....Gute and Murphy have never liked Arod and have been trying to move on from him since TT left.
MLF is the only one of the 3 to praise Arod in public for all the good he did the organization.
MM was all "Ted says he is complicated" and "Dont be the problem"
Gute is caught in the middle between his boss MM and a guy he needs to have a good working relationship with in MLF.
MLF meanwhile said this about Arod
“He’s done so much for myself, my family, our coaches’ families, so many people within the organization, other players,” LaFleur continued. “A lot of people have been rewarded, quite frankly, because of his ability to go out there and play and play at such a high level.”
As for the Packers being in the hunt for the Playoffs this year and more the following years because Aaron "The Problem" Rodgers is finally out of the way now..... I'm just gonna keep it simple and say I strongly disagree...
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 04:00 am
Nice to see a Packer fan in here not driven by hate, and with some common sense as a bonus.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 11, 2023 at 09:25 am
As you continually hate on Gute and Love. You're not fooling anyone with your fake outrage.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 11:38 am
Hating and stating true facts are not the same.
I don't hate anyone, which is more than i can say for most.
But thanks for trying.
Bearmeat
August 11, 2023 at 06:33 am
Fair points about MLF, MM and BG.
In your last paragraph, I think you're over-estimating how good the NFCN is going to be this year. Let's remember the Lions were bottom 2 in defensive DVOA last year. The Bears were dead last. The Bears signed 2 ILBs and a WR1 (admittedly a good move there) and the Lions got rid of what worked for them on offense last year and got a rookie ILB, FS with very little athletic upside, and a RB. YAWN. And the Vikings were an 8-9 team masquerading as a good team last year and have inarguably gotten worse on offense and defense.
The division is there for the taking. Plus, we play the NFCS - which is the only division that is just as bad as the NFCN this year.
Unless Love goes off Mahomes style and the defense lives up to its talent lever (and I"d be shocked by both) GB is not a Super Bowl threat this year. But in 2024? Look out!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 03:36 pm
I think our chances to contend for a Lombardi are better in 2025 than they are next season, just based on the salary cap situation. We'll see ...
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 09:09 pm
If everything goes to plan I agree that 2025 seems like the 1st year this team should be a legitimate SB contender. It could happen before that if some fortuitous things happen for the team (stranger things have happened) but 2025 seems to be the right outlook.
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 09:06 pm
Its always tough to project how a year will play out especially since the NFL is known for teams shocking people every year good or bad. I agree that the NFC North is not filled with power house teams.
But the main reason I see the Packers struggling is that the Shannahan/McVay/MLF offense has been around enough that defenses have a pretty good idea about what it tries to do and how to play against it. Our Offense, for the most part, is filled with guys that have little to no experience. That disparity in knowledge, technique and how to apply those correctly, successfully at the NFL level is gonna make for a very challenging year. There is alot of potential on the Packers Offense, no doubt about it.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 03:57 am
It's been all Rodgers fault!!!
Waa..waa..waa
***********
Yes!!
Let the winning begin!!
Rodgers Haters Unite!!
Bearmeat
August 11, 2023 at 06:29 am
Damn Straight, you can file me as a Rodgers hater. If you're going to be an asshole, you'd better WIN. He hasn't.
BUHBYE.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 11, 2023 at 08:46 am
You mean Super Bowls, because AR certainly won a lot. This is a high standard to set for Love, Gute and LaFleur.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 11, 2023 at 09:26 am
It might seem unfair, but, when you play in a town nicknamed "Titletown" the standard is the standard.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 03:38 pm
Lol touche ;)
Coldworld
August 11, 2023 at 09:41 am
If you accept Rodgers as a consensus all time great then the standard should be that high. Unless you contend that Rodgers’ Ilk fall from trees, expecting Love to be that is unrealistic. They don’t, so it is unrealistic, as is expecting a GM to match him is too. Neither Wolfe nor TT barred a 1000 on high QB picks.
It’s right to expect a team to strive to win Super Bowls. It’s fair to say we had failings that led to less than our last to QBs merited. However, stating that doesn’t make the equating of standards you draw valid. It would be valid IF Love turns out to be a great, but that’s a bit too far out on a limb for me at this point.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 11:59 am
Idk CW....
I think in the first round Wolf and TT batted .1000
Wolf traded a first for Favre, and TT grabbed Rodgers in the first when most other teams passed on Rodgers.
I'll add, TT had big balls to do that and he paid the price at the time for it with fans. Until 2010 when his pick was vindicated.
TT and Wolf both acquired back to back HOF quarterbacks that lasted 30 years. Something that will probably never happen ever again.
I'm not about to critique them on their other QB picks after the first round.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 11:45 am
I didn't set the standard greatreynoldo.
Wolf, Thompson, Holmgren, McCarthy Favre, Rodgers did.
Of course the coaches and QB's get credit, but i give the most credit to the GM's who built the Championship rosters.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 11:52 am
Additionally...Gute recently answered a reporters question on team expectations, and he said....
"The goal has always been the same here every year."
*I could dispute that when Gute's Packer team was 1 game away from the Super Bowl (twice) and Gute elected to look to the future trading up for Love in a 2020 receiver rich draft.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 11, 2023 at 12:53 pm
I have been a "win it all now and worry about the rebuild later" guy. The standard regardless of whether it is fair or who gets credit for it is world titles. That is hard.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 05:38 pm
There is a standard in Green Bay, in Title Town....Gute says so himself.
Whether he can meet that standard has yet to be seen.
But maybe Mark Murphy, now the head of football operations since 2018 can (cough)...help him.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 01:20 pm
"While you can quibble with his 3rd round picks, in general, Gute has been an excellent GM" - Bearmeat
*******************************
What about his 4th through 7th round picks?
2018...Only one player remains from that entire draft class. Seriously..look it up
2019... 3 players remain from that draft class, Only 1st and 2nd round picks.
2020...1 player on the roster from the 4th-7th round. John Runyan, PFF grade of 62.6, a weak link of the right side. BUT...he's a starter, the only starter from 4-7 in Gutes first 3 drafts.
2021...1 starter, 5th round TJ Slayton ,PFF grade below average.
The other 5 picks either gone, or 2nd or 3rd string.
2022...Too soon to call.
So if you include rounds 3-7, i think it's safe to give Gute an F for those rounds.
Not because i hate Gute, i don't.
But because it's the truth.
Some can't handle the truth, those are the thumbs down guys with no counter opinion.
The weakest of the weak.
The truth is what it is, i don't pretend.
barutanseijin
August 11, 2023 at 02:50 pm
Disingenuous.
You know as well as we do that later round picks just don’t stick around very long in the pros. Some of them will never make a 53 man roster. Guys like Tom Brady or even Marshall Newhouse (5th round pick who played 11 seasons as a journeyman OT) are very rare. Across the league, the general tendency is that 1st and second round picks have the longest careers. That’s just the nature of talent distribution.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 05:46 pm
You know what isn't rare...barut?
Ted Thompson drafting a handful of All-Pro and Pro Bowl offensive lineman in the 4th and 5th rounds.
Bakhtiari
Linsley
J.C. Tretter
T.J. Lang
Sitton
*************
I don't know about you barut....but to me, that's damn impressive.
****************
Like i said in a post above ...some can't handle the truth.
Anything else i can help you with...barut?
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 03:10 pm
75,
Gutey will show a lot by the end of next draft. Do we have few needs? Does he trade up to fill them with best in class?
If that's all a yes, he'll look good even if JL never gets a ring. And under this hypothetical GB should contend for at least a decade.
It's also possible that many positions including QB prove to just be not good enough to win it all, no matter how exciting. This is much more likely going by pure mathematical probability, and trying to judge a GM by this slight difference in future talent simply isn't fair, especially when you account for the complexities of this organization with MM at the helm.
Fair or not, it is exactly these unknowns that will cement Gutey's legacy. I plan to enjoy this season regardless. We've already had one surprisingly fun game, with more pleasant surprises than bad ones.
Hopefully I get to at least 2 more practices and get a better view of what I think of our O line especially at depth, which is what I've tried to focus on so far with little return for my effort beyond seeing the now injured Mt Caleb consistently dominate.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 02:07 pm
Bearmeat, nobody would have traded away their franchise QB after winning back to back MVPs.
Here we are now, and there's a very wide range of what's acceptable and foreseeable.
GPG!
croatpackfan
August 11, 2023 at 03:41 pm
Neither was Packers. They gave him after 2 consecutive MVP the richiest contract in NFL. And how he turned them that? By avoiding all teams activities during preseason.
But I just jumped to my mouth. Talk about him as much as you want. I have my Packers which I share with please and easy with true fans.
Good luck all.
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 03:56 pm
You too, croat!!!
Leatherhead
August 10, 2023 at 06:52 pm
I must be hallucinating. This is part of the front office that was "destroying the franchise" because they were "clowns" and "incompetents" and had engineered a "dumpster fire".
Here's how I see it: At this point in the season, I like our starting lineups on both sides of the ball and that
is Gutekunst's primary job, and I think he's done it well. His ability to continue to get extra premium draft picks in 2018, 2022, 2023, and now 2024 is pretty impressive. His ability to get UDFA help, like Lazard and Nijman, has helped. And the biggest difference between him and his predecessor/mentor, Thompson, is that he has been more willing to acquire FAs. Douglas, Campbell, and PSmith are all FA acquisitions, and resignings.
It's impossible to talk about Gutekunst without talking about Rodgers, since one of the biggest challenges he was going to face was transitioning the Packers to the post-Rodgers era, and he did that spectacularly, squeezing two MVP seasons out of him before trading him for two premium picks, and simultaneously drafted and developed a replacement who might actually be an improvement over Rodgers of last year.
Well done, IMO.
Bitternotsour
August 10, 2023 at 11:20 pm
The ONLY thing he does better than Thompson is talk to the press. Let's also acknowledge that Thompson ran his own show, no interference from the annoying Mark Murphy.
When Gutekunst matches Woodson and Julius Peppers, well, we can talk.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 11, 2023 at 09:29 am
You act like prime hall of famers are just out there floating around waiting to be signed for less than theyre worth like Woodson and Peppers. I dont think you appreciate how rare those players are and how rare it is they become unrestricted free agents in their primes.
Bitternotsour
August 11, 2023 at 10:56 am
No, i don't act like that, I acknowledge that Thompson signed those hall of famers. Gutekunst is a really good GM, who learned from the best. Thompson was the cream of the crop.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 02:17 pm
"Cream of the crop?!?"
How many Superbowls during the Favre-Rogers era? We can talk about having a good run or wasting QB talent, but not "cream of the crop."
We're on the edge of maybe redeeming that shortfall but it could take 10-15 years to know.
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 01:01 am
I think it is to early to call whether BG was spectacular moving on from Arod. If JLove doenst work out or is just all right with no SB appearances then all Gute did is kick one of the greatest QBs the NFL has seen out the door for some college kids.... Until we know what JLove has done, it could very well be that Gute wasted 2 MVP seasons at the most valuable position because BG was busy building a team down the road for a guy that BG and MM liked more on a personal-relationship level. That would be a "they shit every bed in the house" type of management mistake. The next few years are gonna be interesting....
Gute does deserve credit for drafting some good players and finding some UDFA's and FA's though.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 02:21 pm
PFR,
exactly.
While it's about the team not Gutey, this is still what it comes down to. And the only other option would have been if AR12 demanded a trade after Jennings left as that's when he got pissy.
Untylu1968
August 11, 2023 at 03:28 pm
If Love never leads the Packers to a superbowl appearance, he'll only be one behind #8 "the goat ". Rodgers in my book, is one of the greatest regular season QBs of all time. Playoffs, not so much..
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 03:44 pm
Unty, would be a thumbs up but #8 is Sean Clifford.
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 09:24 pm
I'm thinking we will have to agree to disagree. I'm sure we could throw different stats at each other if we really wanted to. Doesnt sound fun or productive to me though...
I just have a hard time picturing coaches, players and D-coordinators of opposing teams breathing a sigh of relief cause their playing Arod in the playoffs and not the regular season...
Would Favre be considered the same thing??? Great in the regular season, not great in the playoffs?? He basically got Lovie Smith a HC job after that St.Louis turnover-fest....
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 04:34 am
Gute gave up on the 2020 team which was one game short of the Super Bowl.
He traded up for a QB he had his eyes on back in 2019. He flew out to scout him in the fall of 2019 against LSU. That was his target pick before the draft started.
He could have taken or traded up for a receiver in the 2020 draft, a receiver rich draft, but instead, he was determined to draft for the future. Giving up a 1st and 4th round pick for a player to sit on the bench for 3 years. Giving up two players, that could have helped that current team.
Bottom line: The future is now, if Jordan Love doesn't 'hit' for Gute and the Packers, the last 3 years of dissension and drama have been a total waste and Gute will get blasted for it.
Most GM's would get fired for a mistake like that, in Green Bay you get an extension.
That was Gute's doing, not Rodgers.
Good luck to Jordan Love, none of this was his fault.
But lets set aside the Rodgers hate for a minute and be honest with ourselves.
There aren't a lot of fans or NFL media thinking Love is going to be the Packers next franchise QB.
I don't think that even the Packers think he is. Otherwise they would have given him his 5th year option, instead of giving him a 7 million dollar pay cut with his one year contract.
Or....they could have signed him long term, if they had that kind of faith.
It's not 'impossible' for Love to be the Packers franchise QB, but..................Gute should start praying.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 04:40 am
Wolf built his Championship roster, and won the Super Bowl in his 5th year.
Thompson built his Championship roster, and won the Super Bowl in his 6th year.
We're entering Gute's 6th year...any guesses?
***************
I know..i know...it's Rodgers fault, because it's always Rodgers fault!!!....lol
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 11:30 am
We're entering Gute's 6th year...any guesses?
Oppy
August 15, 2023 at 07:24 pm
Or...
Wolf brought home a Lombardi in his hand-picked QB's 5th full year as the starting QB
Thompson got the hardware after his 1st round QB selection played his 3rd full year as the starting QB
Maybe we see what happens when Gutekunsts' pick at QB has a few years under his belt as the starter.
I'll tell you one thing.. there's a ton of talent on this roster that will be peaking in about 3 years.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 11:36 am
Look at those thumbs down!!...Brilliant, lol 🙂
Now how about using your mind and telling me what's not true of what i wrote, or at least counterpoint.
I know, i know...that's hard isn't it.
The truth isn't always pretty.
Carry The G!!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 03:46 pm
75,
you're ignoring massive differences. Too many to bother with. If you truly don't know?
I think you're being obtuse.
Since'75
August 11, 2023 at 05:30 pm
The major difference is those GM's seeking, and landing their franchise QB's decisively, where as Gute reached for his, mismanaged the acquisition and now there are low expectations for the team.
But if you drink enough kool aid, you start to have faith and believe that Gute and Jordan are the answer for the Packers.
That IS your right....enjoy.
And good luck with that.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 03:21 pm
There are many other differences, particularly with the structure of the organization at the top. You can't have an apples for apples comparison, which is what you're trying to do.
Football comes down to win or lose. No best of 7 series. I'll accept 6-11, or 11-6. To surprise me, this season's record will have to be outside those boundaries. Anything in there and a Lombardi in 2025 is within reach, and both Gutey and MLF would only be in their first year of actual control at BEST.
Since'75
August 15, 2023 at 11:29 am
"There are many other differences, particularly with the structure of the organization at the top." - Sic
YES!!
One big difference.....
Our President changed the by laws back, to put himself in charge of all football operations. (where he had no experience whatsoever).
Putting training wheels on Gutekunst.
Except for that fact, it is apples for apples.
If Gutekunst had a problem with Murphy's new structure, he wouldn't have taken the job.
Like Wolf wouldn't have taken the job.
If you recall, Wolf wouldn't take the GM job unless he was 100% in charge of football operations, So Harlan changed the by laws to make that happen.
Which Ted Thompson also enjoyed.
Not coincidentally...it turned a losing franchise, into a winning franchise instantly.
They both built a Super Bowl winning roster by their 6th year as GM
So the powers were reversed again by Murphy in 2018.
Now in his 6th season, Gute is looking at his team just hoping to make the playoffs.
Jordan Love has been compared to Rodgers as far as sitting for 3 years behind a HOF'er, and how it was a proven successful formula for another Championship.
So Gutekunst can't be compared to Wolf or Thompson, or their success in a selected time frame?
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 02:25 pm
75,
I'll agree with you until your evaluation of JL10's current contract. That was just shrewd negotiating, and judging by the fact that JL10's doing his best, it worked. That's synonymous with saying the organization didn't need to pay one cent more.
How soon we might be able to tell if this is a good idea long term, that's an unknown right now. A Lombardi in 2025 would change that.
Since'75
August 15, 2023 at 06:18 pm
Love sat patiently, much like Rodgers, with more adverse conditions (the Packers giving Rodgers a new 3 year 150 million dollar deal.
I mean, Love had to be scratching his head thinking...wtf, right?
So what do the Packers do for Love's 5th year?
Give him his 5th year option for a guaranteed 20.7 million?
Ahhhh nooooo, not exactly.....
They gave him a one year deal for 2024 with a guaranteed 13.5 million.
I didn't graduate from Stanford with a mathematics degree, but that's a cool 7.2 million dollar pay cut vs his 5th year option.
Now we know why the Packers held off on giving Love his 5th year option as i wrote about in the past when they could have given it to him.
What did Love do that deserved a pay cut over the 5th year option?
Why would they screw with him like that?
A) Shrewd negotiating, cheap?
B) They wanted to insult him and make him feel unappreciated and ripped off?
Or...
C)...They don't have a lot of faith in his ability's (regardless of the team's hype in training camp) and figured they'd hedge, and save some money in the meantime.
The Packers have proven they aren't cheap with Rodgers, and others.
I don't think they wanted to (purposely) insult Love just to make him feel bad.
So what is left (that makes any sense)?
I'll add, if the Packers had 100% faith in Love, they would have signed him long term instead of an insulting 1 year deal.
*************
I don't know how all that went down in negotiations with Love.
Ball and Gute: Thanks for coming Jordan....
We want to talk to you about your 5th year option.
As you know that comes with a 20.7 million dollar guarantee
We have a better idea....
How about we replace that with a one year contract for 13.5 million guaranteed.
Would you like that?
Love: Wait!...what?
Can i call my agent?
stockholder
August 10, 2023 at 06:56 pm
You’ve been a fan since 1997.
You speak for yourself very well.
But don’t fill my head with your idealism.
The packers offense is rated @ 28.
Thats the projection.
Gute has been a GM for 5 yrs.
He set himself up, for his own glory.
Not the packers.
He let the cap grow. And pissed away a MVP.
But — Rodgers days are over!
Not the Packers. Age was the problem.
So don’t tell someone whose been a fan
since childhood. My Love has been tested.
The end isn’t here yet- UNTIL The Cap is Fixed.
And while this maybe his best draft in 5 yrs.
TT would have criticized him if he was alive!
Disregarding the draft Guru’s grades is Blindness.
The trading of Adams and Rodgers was Business.
And it’s a game thats played in the NFL by better GMs.
Gutey doesn’t rock my world.
The mistakes he made shouldn’t be covered up.
Because he is the first person
that benefited from Rodgers.
Optimism - Out with the old and in with the new.
I’m thankful you're not on the Board of Directors.
dblbogey
August 10, 2023 at 07:20 pm
I too, think we should have a mute button here.
stockholder
August 10, 2023 at 07:29 pm
This Article shouldn't be a one way street.
It's just a fact, that if Rodgers got hurt.
The Packers would pick in the top 10.
And they would have had better!
I still maintain Tee Higgins and Chin.
Instead of a poor draft grade.
coolhand
August 11, 2023 at 09:44 am
So, Gute drafts a rookie WR that 12 would ignore anyway and only throw to 17.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 02:33 pm
CH, that's an interesting angle. I can just picture that conversation going down between AR12 & Gutey before the draft 2020, done by AI voices. Lol!
Pretty sure Gutey didn't open that door and considered it tact.
Since'75
August 15, 2023 at 06:31 pm
"So, Gute drafts a rookie WR that 12 would ignore anyway and only throw to 17." - CH
Or, another way to look at it....That same receiver has 2 years experience under his belt when Adams left after 2021, giving Rodgers someone to throw to besides 3 rookie receivers trying to find their way in the NFL.
But what do i know, i'm a bit slow.
Packerpasty
August 10, 2023 at 08:23 pm
yah lets turn into even more of a cult for a few than it already is..then see how long this website lasts when people are tired of being criticized for their opinion and move on to somewhere else...
Since'75
August 15, 2023 at 06:34 pm
Yes Pasty...lets all agree on everything and stroke each others ego and have weekend get togethers singing kumbaya around the campfire at our bi yearly 'Carry The G' camping trips.
Leatherhead
August 15, 2023 at 07:11 pm
What would your recommendation be?
Since'75
August 15, 2023 at 09:23 pm
My recommendation?
Don't be so thin skinned. Try to have an exchange of thoughts.
Counterpoint instead of just thumbing down people with no reply.
Whenever someone thumbs down people's comment with no reply...
I smile, and wonder if their husbands are football fans also.
That may sound a bit harsh, but i practice what i preach i don't thumbs down...anyone.
Whether i reply to them, or not...EVER, that isn't my style.
That is just my opinion, if it makes people happy to thumb down others with no reply, live a happy life.
Personally i just always thought that if you thumb down someone, you must have an opinion, right?
Maybe their parents won't let them leave comments...i don't know.
Oppy
August 10, 2023 at 07:27 pm
Drafting to ensure the long term success of a franchise isn't drafting to "set [yourself] up, for [your] own glory." It's exactly the opposite.
He did something he knew people would blast him for, selflessly, because he believed it was in the best interests of the GBP.
I've had this exact exchange with you previously. Apparently, in order to prove you are a tireless servant of your franchise, a GM is required to draft players they don't think will be able to replace your aging talent. Got it.
stockholder
August 10, 2023 at 07:33 pm
You don't. All in means All in.
Oppy
August 10, 2023 at 08:09 pm
Take up being "all in" with that guy in NY. He hasn't been "all in" in GB since 2016.
stockholder
August 10, 2023 at 08:14 pm
He said they were only a couple players away.
You should have listened to him more.
Finally Clark got help.
Hate closed your mind.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 02:36 pm
SH,
yes. I think it's a matter of fans want to win vs FO primarily wants to sell tickets.
Consider me cynical, but following the money is the best way to understand conundrums.
Oppy
August 15, 2023 at 07:31 pm
There's no owner making more money if they sell more tickets.
The Packers are a not-for-profit. They literally exist to play football and enrich the community.
I don't understand how many times I need to remind people of this simple fact. The excess the make in profit goes to community or gets socked away in funds and investments that protect the future of the franchise should hard times fall (most obvious scenario of hard times: Jerry Jones and a squad of about 8 other owners get their way and abolish the current system of broadcast revenue sharing.)
Since'75
August 15, 2023 at 09:02 pm
"He did something he knew people would blast him for, selflessly, because he believed it was in the best interests of the GBP." - Oppy
I remember Thompson doing something that most Packer fans blasted him for, repeatedly, and in public.
Much worse than what Gute is experiencing.
The difference being....
With Thompson, it actually 'proved' to be in the best interest of the Green Bay Packers.
It's called Super Bowl XLV.
Tune in for Gutes 6th season and join us in finding out if the Packers reach their goal of making the playoffs this season.
Oppy
August 15, 2023 at 10:41 pm
Packers Regular season record under Thompson before Rodgers took the helm and through the 2010 superbowl season:
2005: 4-12 Did not make playoffs
2006: 8-8 Did not make playoffs
2007: 13-3 Lost NFC Championship
2008: 6-10 (Rodgers first year starting) Did Not Make Playoffs
2009: 11-5 Lost Wildcard Round
2010: 10-6 Superbowl
Under Gute so far:
2018: 6-9-1 Did Not Make Playoffs
2019: 13-3 Lost NFC Championship
2020: 13-3 Lost NFC Championship
2021: 13-4 Lost Divisional Playoffs
2022: 8-9-0 Did not Make PLayoffs
Gutekunst: .646 Winning Percentage over 5 seasons
Thompson: .525 Winning Percentage over first 5 seasons
For what it's worth, Wolf's first 5 seasons (wins) 4, 9, 9, 9, 11 (.525 Winning Percentage)
Seems like Gutekunst is doing alright so far. We'll see how things shape up over the next three seasons with Love.
Since'75
August 16, 2023 at 08:54 am
In 2019 the Packers were one game away from the Super Bowl...agreed?
So in the 2020 draft Gute traded up for Love, knowing he couldn't help the current team and that he would be sitting on the bench for years....agreed?
It only takes common sense to proclaim that Gute was drafting for the future, not for his current 2020 team...agreed?
In the second round, Gute drafted AJ Dillon. One could argue not a deep need considering they have Mr. Everything in Aaron Jones....Agreed?
***********
Yes, you proved that Gute had a better winning percentage with an experienced HOF QB in Rodgers, congratulations.
Here's what matters to Packer fans more than winning percentage...SUPER BOWL WINS.
That is where Thompson and Wolf reign supreme.
They won Super Bowls in their 5th and 6th seasons with rosters they built.
Gute is operating in his 6th season with a roster he built.
Last time i checked, they don't hand out trophy's for winning percentage.
Gute had a chance to advance to the Super Bowl in the 2020 season by adding receiver talent to the team...he elected instead to draft for the future putting his 1st and 2nd round picks....on the bench.
Gute had a real chance to improve his 2020 team by adding talent, focusing on getting to the Super Bowl in his 3rd season..instead, he decided NO, i'm going to draft for the future.
Bottom line......
Gute wins the winning percentage 'stat'
Thompson and Wolf win Lombardi trophies.
Oppy
August 16, 2023 at 06:29 pm
You don't seem to understand that Gutekunst hasn't had the opportunity to institute his QB yet.
You also don't seem to account for the fact the Gutekunst doesn't have the autonomy in decision making that Thompson or Wolf had.
In 2007, the year before Rodgers started, the Packers were one win away from the super bowl.. Agreed? Did the Packers "Go all in" with Brett? No, they told him to kick rocks and transitioned to the new guy.
Since you want to make it only about super bowls- do you understand how backwards it is that you're setting the goal post as to how quickly Wolf and Thompson achieved a superbowl win, as opposed to the fact they only had one SB win each over their tenure as GM of the Packers? It would seem to me a person like yourself who is 'only about the Superbowls' would be more interested in -how many- Superbowls Gutekunst may achieve during his tenure as opposed to -how quickly- he wins one.
Wouldn't that make sense for you 'Superbowls are the only thing that matters' types? That'd you'd wait to pass judgement on a GM's career based on the sum of his accomplishments?
Ron won 1 Lombardi in 9 years. Ted 'only' 1 championship in 12. If you're 'only' about the Superbowls, it would seem to me you'd be more interested in total haul over time, not how quickly a GM attained one.
My point is simple. I'm not worried about a race to a trophy. Great GMs play a long term game. But let's be honest, you're not really about a race to a trophy either, it's just a convenient measuring stick to reinforce your dislike for Gutekunst. If he would win a SB this year (I don't think he will), you'd be finding another measurable to complain about.. so you could argue about it.
Buh-bye.
greengold
August 16, 2023 at 06:59 pm
I know they’re both considered “greats.” “HOF players,” etc. Time has shown us they both turned into a couple of knuckleheads in their later years. Both narcissistic “me-first” throwers of the football, with little care for others. Not the leaders of men, the extension of the HC on the field-types any successful NFL QB1 position demands.
Rodgers had his chances. He choked in the playoffs a bunch, when it mattered most. He also very clearly chose to hero-ball, as did Favre, leaving players like Aaron Jones, Jamaal Williams, AJ Dillon, Ahman Green looking down at their own unused feet in bewilderment. Time and time again.
Neither of Favre nor Rodgers could get out of their own ways. Both drama queens. Neither could not be told what to do because they knew better.
These are truths, and fortunately, we can start leaving that garbage in the dust.
I’m not a hater. I loved both players for much of their careers. Both had suffered talent drains by both Wolf and Thompson that adversely affected team success. I just expected more of both players, both GMs, quite frankly. A lot of ownership spread around for failures, but both contributed to those failures. Just like both contributed to the wins.
75s “argument “ is troll work. Shocker. Totally agree with your takes here, Oppy.
Now, it’s all about the new era. Let’s move along.
Ah, SHIT!!! I just remembered Mike Sherman!!! DANG!!! All the years of therapy I’ve paid dearly for to forget him…! 😆🤣😂
Let me close again, if you will.
New era. New era. New era.
All Gas. No Fucking Break.
All Gas. No Fucking Brake.
CTFB. CTFB. CTFB. CTFB.
LFG GPG
Fubared
August 10, 2023 at 09:20 pm
I have not been a Gutt fan ever since I read, Gary was his choice in Feb, way before the combine. Why, he can play two positions.
That's like saying, he passed on Walter Peyton because he couldn't catch the ball out of the back field.
Gutt is the worst GM in football and people will be calling for his head if this team goes belly up this year
Since'75
August 16, 2023 at 09:10 am
It's also no secret he pre planned drafting Love, possibly as far back in Oct of 2019 when they flew out to scout him playing against LSU.
Besides the call he made to one of Loves other coaches, where the coach said that the call was very serious and in depth about Love.
Also noting that the call came at a time where they usually don't get calls on prospective draft picks at that time of the season.
*************
We remember Gute taking heat for the pick.
Then Gute explaining that Love "fell to him"
Well...lol
If he "fell" to you, why did you have to trade up?
He must think we're stupid, idk.
jannesbjornson
August 10, 2023 at 11:28 pm
Preach it. The guy is just a fill in the blanks reactor. Always behind the curve. Best hope nothing happens to Bhaktiari. We saw the" solid O line" in action the first 4-6 games of 2022. Major whiffs in the third round, leaving little depth at the #2-# 3 WR with an All Pro at QB. Who in their right mind drafts a guy like Burks and retains King after an epic failure gifting a NFC CH game to the opposition.. Don't get me started. Sounds like a PR campaign for a Ford "Pinto." Seen this show before. Attended my first game @ Lambeau in 1960.
Untylu1968
August 11, 2023 at 07:11 am
Sorry, but the whole argument over a #2 receiver falls flat, due to the fact that #8 had to have Cobb and Lazard, whom I totally respect, but we could've done better with some youth. I'm guessing there were a few other buddies on the team that could've been replaced.
stockholder
August 11, 2023 at 01:19 pm
No - Because Lazard and Cobb came later.
After Rodgers trade demand.
He would have helped Adams.
And the slot was problem #1.
Gute's solution was Amari.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 02:42 pm
Who's decision was it to keep using Amari Cooper as a returner last year after we all knew he's not a returner in 2021? Then releasing both him and Sammy Watkins after the trade deadline for 0 value.
13 picks makes up for that disaster, but still ...
stockholder
August 11, 2023 at 04:19 pm
There's No doubt they were grasping for straws.
barutanseijin
August 11, 2023 at 04:53 pm
C’mon, Amari Rodgers & Watkins had no trade value. No one was going to give the Packers anything for taking their trash.
stockholder
August 11, 2023 at 09:35 pm
You have to Remember.
After Love was drafted.
Rodgers stated he didn't want to be part of a REBUILD
Oppy
August 15, 2023 at 10:47 pm
No shit they were rebuilding.
Rodgers insisted on keeping an aging regime around him for "one more run at it".. 3 times.. with no results.
They leveraged the future of the cap to keep Rodgers old guard buddies around him. It's pretty clear if you paid any attention that Gutekunst didn't approve of the way the cap was being handled- he made comments.
Keep in mind, Russ Ball doesn't report to Gutekunst.. he reports to Murphy.
Finally, this last off season, some sensibilities returned. They shipped Rodgers out and cut away the old growth.
They finally blew it up.
And within a season, we're looking at a young, talented roster again. Cap will be back under control and green again after 2023.
Open your eyes. Gutekunst is not the problem. Murphy's retooled hierarchy is the issue. Hopefully he stays out of the way now.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 11, 2023 at 09:31 am
As you fill our heads with your whiny nonsense.
Since'75
August 16, 2023 at 09:20 am
jannesbjornson makes a good point.
Almost by himself, Kevin King gifted a NFCCG win to Tampa, getting burned for two easy Td's
But......he also had help.
Adrian Amos let Cameron Brate run by him and let him go uncovered into the end zone for another gimmee TD.
That's 21 easy points gifted to Brady.
Reality...is not whiney nonsense.
*****************
As far as King goes, he was offered a 1 year deal after the 2020 NFCCG, that is true.
Whether it was necessary or not is up for debate.
That was when they drafted Eric Stokes, so it's possible Gute kept him another year for insurance.
After that season, not surprisingly, 32 NFL teams had no interest in signing King...at any price.
Which is not shocking as King's average PFF grade for his career was 61.4.
****************
FYI 2021 draft class...Stokes fell off the map last season. Meyers has consistency problems.
If those two players don't turn things around, the 2021 draft class is almost a complete bust.
Since'75
August 16, 2023 at 10:51 am
Mr. thumbs down....what is it you don't agree with?
I can't read minds.
Are disputing the facts i laid out?
Do you hate the truth?
Are you too busy chugging your pitcher of kool aid that you can't reply with your thoughts?
Did you thumbs down right before your Mom called you upstairs to take the garbage out or possibly going back to school shopping?
Coldworld
August 10, 2023 at 06:56 pm
Let me see what caliber of coach and staff we really have. That’s my biggest concern. At least it looks like a more diverse offense akin to those we thought was coming before the last dances. However, it takes more than that. I know that’s not Gute’s call, but how good we as a team are isn’t just dependent on who is on the roster.
Leatherhead
August 10, 2023 at 08:23 pm
Yes. This will provide some clarity for those who believe it's all been Rodgers to this point.
As far as diversity, I'm of the opinion that the simplest stuff works best and IMO, that involves keeping the ball in the hands of Love, Jones/Dillon, Watson, and maybe Musgrave on most of the plays, all of which will be either runs or passes.
It's the tricky...the misdirection, the motion, etc., that looks cool, but it boils down to getting guys pushed out of the way.
#1 Protect the ball
#2 Get people blocked
Much of our success on offense this year will depend on how well we do that. If I was predicting, at this point, I'd predict the Packers are going to be one of the best teams in the NFC this year, and the credit isn't going to go to Aaron Rodgers. We have to stay healthy, of course, but my crystal ball is showing lots of big plays in our first several games. It's going to be a bumpy ride.
Bitternotsour
August 10, 2023 at 11:27 pm
It's August. If we can't be optimistic in August what's the point. Clear eyed, ready for a new season, a season of change.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 02:45 pm
With four 6-packs of different Oktoberfest in the fridge!
🍻
jannesbjornson
August 10, 2023 at 11:41 pm
Circumlocution. The Triad acts as one ever since the 2017 draft with Ted playing the "Bernie" role and the malfeasance permeating that draft. The 2018 draft he showed some acumen moving back up to secure Alexander, but matched it with a five martini guy at the craps table choosing Burks, Jackson, Ja'mon, a guy who never saw the field in Madison and a Punter with a windup slower than the Senior's softball league. They all have to go, period.
LambeauPlain
August 11, 2023 at 10:49 am
Please name 5 GMs who have had greater success that Gutey assembling a roster over the last 6 years.
I will wait.
packerfanroy
August 10, 2023 at 08:00 pm
"Brian Gutekunst is coming off perhaps his best draft ever as a General Manager" None of these draft picks have even played a snap of real NFL football...
"The head coach has complete control of the team without worrying about certain influences, the defensive coordinator has taken the stance of playing to his defense's strengths." Do you want the coaches to work with their players or not? You sound excited for MLF to do it one way and excited for Barry to do it the other way. This lowers your credibility and makes it apparent that your thought process is affected by bias instead of logic.
"By 2021, Gutekunst had built a team that had no excuses as to why it shouldn't at least reach the Super Bowl." Everybody pointed to the Packers special teams as something that would get exposed in the playoffs and cost them a chance to play in the Super Bowl. Even before that season MLF wanted the FO to open the purse strings and pay enough to get a better ST coach but the FO (not sure if it was BG or MM) wanted to go cheap. MLF wanted Darren Rizzi to coach ST in 2019, FO lowballed him and then we went with Mennenga and then Drayton instead. The playoffs came, ST cost us the game, GB got exposed for being cheap and then the FO had to admit it and pay up for Bisacciaa. The FO trying to play moneyball with the coaches salaries was a huge fuck up when this team was supposedly all in for the SB. Really think about this last part....someone in the front office fucked up this teams chance to go to the SB in order to save a little money... Bisacciaa makes around $2 million a year. The FO fucked up a SB run in order to save around $1 million. For an NFL team that is chump change. It's stuff like this that make me question what the hell the FO is thinking and why "In Gute we trust" sounds pretty stupid to me.
Oppy
August 10, 2023 at 08:10 pm
Who "fucked up" the SB run since 2011? You're telling me Gute and MLF sub-zero'd the SB run for the last 12 years?
packerfanroy
August 10, 2023 at 11:50 pm
Did you read my post??? Because I didnt say Gute and MLF screwed our SB run chances for the last 12 years....
This article is about how awesome Gute is and why we should trust his leadership of the FO. I disagree with the article.
One reason why I disagree is the ST coach debacle which came about because of the FO, which Gute is in charge of. The FO trying to save $1 million dollars cost us a playoff run and nobody in the FO (again, Gute is in charge of the FO) thought that the risk of paying a whole 1 million dollars more was worth the possible reward of winning the SB.
The reason we didnt win another SB while ARod was here is, in no particular order..... Injuries, massive failures on defense and special team, poor management from Mark Murphy and Gute.
I will gladly give Gute credit for finding some good draft picks and making some good FA additions. Who knows, maybe some of the bad decisions the FO has made come from MM and Gute is just following orders.
But I guess that a lot of Packer fans figure that "THE PROBLEM" is in New York now and that this team will be competing IN the SB quite frequently now that losers like ARod are out of Gute and MM's way....I guess we'll see...
Oppy
August 11, 2023 at 02:40 am
This is pretty simple to figure out, but I'll help you along with it.
Gute has not been the GM in GB for 12 years, MLF has not been the coach in GB for 12 years.. If they're the ones screwing up a SB run, how do you account for all those years the Packers didn't get to the big game since 2010?
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 04:53 am
I never said MLF and Gute screwed our SB run for 12 years...Those are your words.
I listed what I think are the reasons we havent been back to the SB. Some of them happened before Gute. Those things (injuries, bad defense, bad ST play) are how I account for the Pack not being back in the big game.
You either don't read my post or lack reading comprehension.
You dont need to be condescending Oppy, it's not a good look. We're all Packer fans here, guy.
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 04:35 am
“ This article is about how awesome Gute is and why we should trust his leadership of the FO. I disagree with the article.
One reason why I disagree is the ST coach debacle which came about because of the FO, which Gute is in charge of.”
Oppy, would you mind handing me my buzzer?
coolhand
August 11, 2023 at 09:58 am
Gute doesn't hire or fire coaches, that's MLF. The blame for the STs debacle is squarely on his shoulders.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 03:51 pm
Coolhand, with the structure of this organization can we say ANYTHING is "squarely on the shoulders" of any one person?!?
TKWorldWide
August 16, 2023 at 02:45 pm
Silos, baby, silos!
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 11, 2023 at 09:34 am
Ok who would you replace Gute with? What GM is out there waiting to come work for this team who also has a better track record? The answer is none. And Gute would have another high profile job in 5 minutes.
croatpackfan
August 11, 2023 at 03:54 pm
Packers would hire stockholder to replace Brian. He is so much better expert.
Since'75
August 15, 2023 at 09:50 pm
LOL...
I always love the defense of....
Who would you get to replace him?
As if that is someone's job here...lol
I can remember Bear fans when told they can't win with Cutler.
Who can you get to replace him they cried out.
After 2010, Capers defense went downhill in a hurry, and stayed down.
Speaking in his defense, some fans said the same thing.
"who ya gonna get to replace him?"
That is a losers mentality, always has been.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 03:34 pm
PFR, you wrote this:
"One reason why I disagree is the ST coach debacle which came about because of the FO, which Gute is in charge of. The FO trying to save $1 million dollars cost us a playoff run and nobody in the FO (again, Gute is in charge of the FO)"
I don't think Gutey is in charge of the FO. He might not even have had any say about how big a final offer to make for any staff position. In theory Russ Ball handles that for players as far as I know, but this stuff is done behind closed doors and I'm not sure how much even the board of directors knows about these details.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 02:50 pm
Oppy, this is the perfect response. We've had some interesting discussions on this very topic. It's pretty myopic to only consider the last 5 years or so, with the Lombardi in 2010 and the disappointment ever since.
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 09:45 pm
I dont think its myopic. The article is about Gute as the GM, my original post was in response to that article. I limited my post to what the article stated and to the time frame that Gute has been GM.
The article my post is responding too never brought up the years before Gute was GM. My post never brought up the years before Gute was GM. The article and the original post I made in response to it were not talking about who is to blame for no SB's since 2010.
Oppy just came out of left field with all that stuff and then assumed I meant things with words I never even said about a topic that my post and the article had nothing to do with...
Packers0808
August 10, 2023 at 08:16 pm
Everybody is an expert, especially recliner guys!
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 12:10 am
I never said I was an expert.
Are you looking to talk about the Packers and have a different opinion than I do??? Say what it is then, its kinda the point of chat boards like this.
If all you really want to do is try and look cool while shitting on other peoples opinion, with out having to put your own opinion up for scrutiny, then maybe go and do something better with your time... I would suggest calling the Vikings and asking where on the tour you get to see the SB trophies.... that sounds more constructive than what you've been doing responding to my comment thread anyways...
Packers0808
August 11, 2023 at 02:39 pm
Kind triggered and or guilty are you? Did I anyplace say a name, it was just an off the cuff general statement including my self and anyone else. Man if you are that defensive maybe going off the boards should be in your court.
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 10:02 pm
No, I'm not triggered or guilty. You didnt have to say my name because you responded to my post and its assumed that when you respond to a persons post you are talking to them but hey maybe you misclicked....
It does bother me that some Packer fans on this site (and to be crystal clear I am generalizing and dont mean you specifically Packers0808) treat other Packer fans with such vitriol and mud slinging. I'd expect Packer fans to get that treatment at Soldier Field not on a chat board for Packer fans but here we are...
If you want to have a chat about Packers and god forbid even agree to disagree I'd be perfectly happy having you throw your two cents in.
No, I'm not going anywhere, sticks and stones and all that jazz....
Packers0808
August 12, 2023 at 11:28 am
Like I said honestly was just a general statement.
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 03:52 am
It’s been well documented that Mark Murphy refused to pay Darren Rizi.
“The FO” for discussion purposes is Mark Murphy, and has been since Ted Thompson passed away and he usurped the powers of “Head of Football Operations.” That is also well documented. Per Tom Silverstein:
Timeline
2017
April 27-29 - Packers general manager Ted Thompson starts to show signs of being ill during the NFL draft.
2018
Jan. 2 - Packers president Mark Murphy announces that Thompson is being removed as general manager.
Jan. 3 - All signs point to Packers vice president of football administration Russ Ball becoming the next general manager.
Jan. 4 - Packers coach Mike McCarthy hints in season-ending news conference that he wants a personnel man to be the next general manager.
Jan. 4-6 - Ball, Packers director of player personnel Brian Gutekunst, Packers director-football operations Eliot Wolf and former Buffalo Bills general manager Doug Whaley interview for general manager job.
Jan. 7 - Gutekunst accepts general manager job after being told the management structure was changing.
Jan. 8 - Murphy introduces Gutekunst and reveals he has changed the management structure; Gutekunst named general manager and Russ Ball named executive vice president and director of football operations. Gutekunst, Ball and McCarthy will all report to Murphy.
Dec. 2 - Murphy fires McCarthy.
Dec. 31 - Season ends and search for McCarthy's replacement starts in earnest. Names such as Northwestern coach Pat Fitzgerald, New England offensive coordinator Josh McDaniel and Chicago defensive coordinator Vic Fangio emerge.
2019
Jan. 1-4 - Murphy and his search committee interview six candidates, including McDaniel and Packers interim coach Joe Philbin.
Jan. 5 - Packers interview Tennessee offensive coordinator Matt LaFleur.
Jan. 6 - Murphy convenes search committee.
Most expect LaFleur to be brought in for a second interview, but Murphy decides to hire him.
Jan. 8 - Contract is finalized and LaFleur hire is official.
Jan. 9 - LaFleur is introduced to the media.
Gutekunst isn't initially going to take part in the press conference, but then it's decided he should.
Murphy does most of the talking for the Packers.
Jan. 17 - LaFleur interviews Miami special teams coach Darren Rizzi, a potentially key addition to his staff, but Packers don't offer what they said they would and ultimately isn't hired.
Feb. 18 - LaFleur introduces his staff.
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 04:41 am
"Who knows, maybe some of the bad decisions the FO has made come from MM and Gute is just following orders."
From my post about the Gute....
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 04:58 am
“Who knows?” Many. Tom Silverstein’s timeline of those very events was published years ago.
Now that you know that timeline and power structure, maybe you can see why some might consider the work Brian Gutekunst has done may be considered somewhat extraordinary?
Take into consideration as well the mandates forced upon Gutekunst from Murphy. Some are actually known. Some conjecture.
Brian Gutekunst learned on the job, as EVERY GM does. He’s made his mistakes, as EVERY GM does. That’s how you learn, and with what appears to be steady improvement in his drafts, his tireless work to make the roster better, doing the things he can control, it looks like he is learning quite well. Gutekunst has handled it all with the utmost professionalism.
He’s certainly had one helluva ride in these last 5 years. Gutekunst was hired as a scout for the Packers 25 years ago by Ron Wolf.
I think we’re very fortunate to have him as GM of the Packers.
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 05:23 am
Thats a bit pedantic and I very much left open the possibility that MM made that call, in all fairness to Gute, in my original post. I dont fault myself for saying it might have been Gute because a large part of my information came from Gute himself in a press conference where he talked about changes in how the GBP pay ST coaches in order to hire Bisaccia .
While I will change my mind and lay that ST coaching debacle at MM's increasingly cluttered feet (which means there is a good chance he chokes on it if you follow my word play and know what MM usually accomplishes when placed in front of a microphone) I havent (in my opinion, feel free to not agree) seen anything extraordinary from Gute, which is one point the article was about. And the FO is run by MM and Ive seen enough of that to know not to have faith in MM.
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 05:37 am
Pedantic? Are you freaking kidding me? TMI for you? By the looks of this, you might want to study all the batshit crazy stuff that’s happened, and consider the fact that Gutekunst COMPLETELY rebuilt the team right under everybody’s noses these last 4 years.
WITH ZERO CAP $$$
He’s literally been holding this ship together with aplomb.
Wait for it. The very first test begins tonight.
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 10:29 pm
“Who knows?” Many." <---- Yes that was A LITTLE BIT pedantic.
I was using a common phrase and you know what I meant.... I was not trying to quantify how many people knew that information.
Ive acknowleged that Gute has found some good pieces in the draft, FA and UDFA.
I'm not gonna give Gute credit for completely rebuilding the team. He started with a 1st Ballot HOFer at QB, boderline/probable HOFers in both Bahktiari and Adams, and top notch players at C and RB with Linsley and Jones... The cupboard was far from bare.
Its just a pre-season game, it doesnt mean a thing... The real tests begin in week 1.
Leatherhead
August 12, 2023 at 09:28 am
You know, roy, that using that same logic, Lombardi started with a team that had a lot of 1st ballot HOFers. The cupboard was far from bare.
It's kind of like saying "Well, the meal was great, but the chef had some prime tenderloins in the cooler when he showed up". But you can't take a tenderloin out of the cooler and eat it an enjoy it, it has to be prepared...correctly.....by somebody who knows what they're doing.
Gutekunst/LaFleur have put a very good product on the field now for four years, winning more games than any other franchise in that time, winning the division 3 times and narrowly missing a playoff berth the 4th. IMO, this team has improved since last year, especially on offense.
packerfanroy
August 13, 2023 at 01:59 am
greengold said that Gute "COMPLETELY" (greengold's all caps, not mine) rebuilt the Packers roster. I disagreed because of how much talent was there from Ted Thompson. I've given Gute credit for good picks and roster additions but Gute did not COMPLETELY rebuild the roster.
In the tenderloin analogy are ARod, Bahktiari, Adams, and Jones (TT's picks) the raw ingredients that were just sitting around waiting for Chef Gute to turn them into something palatable??? What about Gutes 3rd round steaks???? How come he didnt prepare them right??? Or were they just bad ingredients to begin with but he picked them anyways???? Is the fact that the packers FO is really a kitchen why MM's press interactions always come with such crudite??? I am not trying to be insulting and I apologize if it comes across that way but the kitchen thing isnt that great of an analogy. I regret nothing about the MM raw vegetable joke....
Leatherhead
August 15, 2023 at 07:20 pm
When we open this season in Chicago, we'll likely have an offense that consists entirely of people drafted by Gutekunst, excluding Bakhtiari and Jones. Similar story on defense, where every player we have except Clark was drafted or signed in FA by Gutekunst.
So you are correct, it isn't complete, it's about 94% Of the 45 guys we suit up, 40 came to Green Bay via Gutekunst. Bakhtiari, Jones and Clark are the exceptions, and they were all signed to extensions by Gutekunst to keep them here.
The football players are the ingredients, and how you combine them and prepare them is what matters. Sorry you don't like the analogy as much as I do, but there's a lot of truth in it and you'll hear coaches themselves use that story.
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 07:53 pm
Blow it out your ass, Troll.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 02:55 pm
GG,
I watched with interest as that happened but never had that much info even then. Very cool seeing that all laid out like this! Thank you
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 04:04 am
Not knowing the history of events and blabbering away like you’re doing here sounds pretty stupid to me.
This took 2 seconds to find:
https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/10/mark-mur...
splitpea1
August 10, 2023 at 08:45 pm
"In Gute We Trust": With such a young team, it still has to verified through the development process and the scoreboard. He'll be judged largely on his selection of Love, but he's done an admirable job of restocking the team with promising young talent where it was needed. The organization had to learn a painful lesson about the importance of competent STs, so maybe a nod to Bisaccia's input is worth noting. I still think Gute will need another solid draft to resolve some lingering questions about safety and the OL.
Speaking of the safety position, there's an excellent article from a couple days ago on Lombardi Ave., "Safety Concern: The Packers' ongoing search to fortify a key position." It's pretty exhaustive and convincing--especially when the author quickly gets to the point: "Examining similarities between the most dominant top-ranked defenses since 2000, they've all shared at least one commonality: a great safety or elite safety play." So I would really like to see Gute do his absolute best to find this missing link, even if takes multiple draft picks.
jannesbjornson
August 10, 2023 at 11:54 pm
He wasted a four pick to move up for Savage, a slot CB. Enough said.
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 12:22 am
The Ghost of Nick Collins All Pro, possibly HOF career (likely, was trending that way) haunted this teams SB chances. Its not just losing Collins...it was also all the draft picks we wasted trying fix his loss, draft picks that could have gone to other positions... biggest reason why they never got back to a 2nd SB during the first SB window of ARods career.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 03:44 pm
Interestingly, we've had some good discussions about this and DBs definitely came up as a major issue raised by the contributing author.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 03:06 pm
SP,
obviously all we have right now is optimism based on current talent, who are also rich in a great attitude and work ethic. My best hope is that next draft Gutey can focus on very few roster weaknesses and trade up to get best in class. Assuming JL10 is our franchise QB it helps us if next draft is QB heavy, because we won't need a top pick in this hypothetical scenario.
I'm not pessimistic about our S room: Owens Moore Ford and Savage are all elite, and a #5 behind them is still competitive between Leavitt and Johnson. [ETA: #48 Sapp joined that competition in the first preseason game!)
Evaluating our depth at O line is my #1 concern, and if we have run block all across. Without both of these we could be in for a poor season. We've got a lot of big guys, and I haven't seen weakness stand out to me ...
very little on this year's schedule is as tough as tonight's game.
canadapacker
August 10, 2023 at 09:18 pm
As I see things - and I have been a Packer's fan since /before the Ice Bowl. Firstly SOME of AR 's time with the team has been wasted by poor drafting and poor coaching selection over the years. Factor into it that AR contributed a great deal to that both with his salary demands and more recently with his Diva mentality, But this team has undoubtedly been better than what the roster has been - especially defensively once the Wood/Matthews/Peppers era ended. I am not sold on Lafleur - he has had his reputation enhanced by AR - pro bowls and all. I am not sold on Gute - He let AR get away with way too much BS - He needed to put his foot down even if it meant that he'd ask for a trade or something. While he was in somewhat of a no win situation - he could have handled it better - especially when he drafted Love. NOW - I am otherwise optimistic that a new era is starting and as far as that is concerned I am happy that we will now see if this team ( I am talking about the management team) is worth the hype. And as we all know - this is a performance based business - so now PERFORM. Love may not lead us to the promised land his first year - but he needs to show what he is made of as did AR his first year ie 6-10.
LambeauPlain
August 11, 2023 at 11:06 am
If Gutey was actually in charge of the football operation, aka TT or Wolf, I feel fairly confident several additional, important and urgent decisions would have been made. And the salary cap would be in far better shape.
MM installed himself as the acting GM in 2018. Fortunately, what he has not niggled in is player acquisition. Every other major decision has his fingerprints all over them. And it probably won't change until he is forced to retire in 2025.
Since'75
August 16, 2023 at 11:21 am
Some could learn from reading LP's comments.
The only caveat being i'm not so sure Gute would have made any more right decisions than Murphy.
With that said.....
Wolf and TT enjoyed making 100% of the football operation decisions, both have a Super Bowl wins to show for it.
So when it came time to hire a new GM, Old Mark Murphy thought it would be a better idea, to change back the bylaws that Robert Harlan changed for Ron Wolf.
I guess Murphy thought he should make 100% of the final decisions on football operations, not the new GM who was hired with a brand new set of training wheels.
I think were seeing a little bit how that is going to be working out, at least until 2025.
When everyone currently employed is moved out and the rest of this disease left in the building has been eradicated.
Since'75
August 16, 2023 at 11:04 am
" Factor into it that AR contributed a great deal to that both with his salary demands and more recently with his Diva mentality." - candapacker
Wow...simple minds.
So, his salary demands?
Were you there?
Is this your first hand knowledge?
But lets say, you were correct...did Rodgers and his agent put a gun to Russ Ball's head and say...PAY ME!!
Or did the Packers pay market value because it was market value?
Diva mentality...Yes, he was a diva (i guess)....maybe when you are one win away from the Super Bowl, and your GM gives up on that and drafts a player to sit on the bench for the future, Rodgers might be pissed off....GO FIGURE, right?
Then drafts a rb even though you don't have a pressing need already having Aaron Jones.
I mean, why would you draft a receiver, in a receiver rich draft hoping to get into a Super Bowl when you can trade up and draft two players to sit on the bench?
How could Rodgers be upset that his GM gave up on the current team?
I have to go now, as i'm losing brain cells.
Thank you for understanding.
Fubared
August 10, 2023 at 09:30 pm
The analyst have the pack winning four games. If that ends up the case you can't put it all on losing Rodgers. A big part of that is piss poor drafting and losing talent to save money. Thats Gutt
Bitternotsour
August 10, 2023 at 11:32 pm
well, if "the analyst" says it, by god, it must be true. the analyst has been right since the beginning of time.
i recommend cancelling the season and moving up the draft. 4 wins ought to get us a pretty fair draft pick.
fthisJack
August 11, 2023 at 08:23 am
I'd put $1000 on them winning more than 4 games...no brainer.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 03:12 pm
4 games!!1!1! Take it to the bank.
Imagine believing the official narrative in 2023. SMH.
Since'75
August 16, 2023 at 02:15 pm
That's right
4 games is a joke.
The sportsbooks have it at 7.5 games for the over/under.
The vegas odds are uncanny with the spreads and the over/unders most of the time.
So if we take the over by winning 8 games in the 2023 season, lets call this season a success.
Ya know.....they get a handicap this season, because...
1) This is the first year of trying to win without a HOF QB in 30 years
2) Love is only in his 4th season
3) Love didn't have a camp in 2020 because of Covid (are we still using that excuse?)
4) We only have 8 1st round picks on defense, if we had 11, i'd put the over/under at 9.5
5) Gute
6) Murphy
😎
Leatherhead
August 12, 2023 at 09:31 am
Well, that would mean this is the worst Packers team since before Ron Wolf arrived. I don't think that's true at all, the analyst is wrong, and you should take what they say with a grain of salt.
Alexander, Savage, Stokes, Gary, Love, Dillon, Watson, Jenkins, Tom.....that doesn't seem like "piss poor" drafting.
Since'75
August 16, 2023 at 02:48 pm
Stokes fell off a cliff last season. 53.7 PFF
Savage is trying to salvage his career after a PFF grade of 47.5, yes...you read that right..47.5
That's lower than Kevin King and King is unemployed.
Gary can't play a complete season, for whatever reason.
Love? Ok, he proved himself a good draft pick ....when did this happen?
Dillon....decent fresh legs in the 2nd half, but he isn't a needle mover
Watson...had 3 standout games out of 14, plus 2 Td catches. Proven?..not quite yet.
Proven means consistency
Jenkins i'll go along with (at guard only)...happily
Tom...trying to bust into the starting line up, splitting reps with 2nd round pick Josh Meyers (60.4 PFF), who the Packers want to replace because he's inconsistent.
Alexander....come get you some!!...excellent pick
*Doubs may prove to be a player, if he can start hanging onto the ball.
*Don't forget the Mensa brothers Walker and Wyatt.
*We won't discuss any of the 3rd round picks and most of the 4th -7th round picks because dat aint cool!!
White92
August 10, 2023 at 09:37 pm
G-kunst was handed a Ferrari in need of an oil change and a brake job. So what does he do first? He uses his first draft to select a punter and a long snapper. Genius! Then he pisses off the HOF QB by TRADING UP to draft his replacement without giving any advance notice. He hires a coach with no spine who has trouble knowing what he has on the roster and who can't fire poor assistants. He then creates a cap disaster and leaves the team with no veteran TE no veteran WR and no veteran kicker. Ya, G-kunst is a HOF GM. Keep telling yourself that
Coldworld
August 11, 2023 at 07:36 am
Gute inherited a roster which had been gutted of depth and quality since TT effectively ceased to be GM and Murphy had his cap guy audition for 3 years. The league knew it, we new it, McCarthy and Rodgers knew it and it was that conflict that burst Ball’s bubble and led to Gute getting the job after significant numbers of the prior FO leadership had moved on before and after Ball’s removal.
Since'75
August 16, 2023 at 03:06 pm
CW....i'm buying into the fact that the team regressed by keeping TT in the seat too long.
That was Murphy's fault (inaction)
Until someone from the Board made Murphy "reassign" (fire) Thompson.
But....i'm not going full tilt on Russ Ball.
Lets be real....When TT couldn't be trusted or didn't have the ability to run the draft, i'm pretty damn sure that Gute and Elliot Wolf had a lot to do with those drafts, especially the 2017 draft.
Btw....I believe Gute ended up with the GM job because McCarthy wasn't having Russ Ball as his General Manager even though Murphy was going to give Ball the job.
To keep it real.....I'm not a McCarthy fan, but i don't blame McCarthy not one damn bit.
Russ Ball had no scouting experience, or talent evaluation experience....at all.
He didn't, and has no business being the GM
That would be almost as dumb as Mark Murphy giving himself full power over football operations when he had absolutely no football operational experience whatsoever.
See what i did there?
White92
August 22, 2023 at 01:47 pm
Been away for a while. My question is if the roster was "gutted of depth and quality" why would you spend draft capital on a punter and a long snapper? Either the roster wasn't gutted of depth and quality, or he made some boneheaded decisions.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 03:15 pm
92,
a "Ferrari in need of an oil change and a brake job" that hadn't made the playoffs in 2 years.
Since'75
August 16, 2023 at 03:13 pm
92 was right, more than he was wrong.....just sayin.
Tingham
August 10, 2023 at 10:54 pm
Great stuff, Joseph. Looking forward to more.
Charvid
August 10, 2023 at 11:01 pm
Among all the debate this off season about whether GB was rebuilding, is it possible that the rebuilding has already occurred and 2022’s 8-9 record represented the depth of the rebuild? Is it possible that was our “rock bottom”? Wouldn’t that be cool?
BuckyBadger
August 11, 2023 at 07:17 am
It was the start of the rebuild. The OL was shuffling and the WR core started over. Fans just didn't want to admit it. It wasn't rock bottom though, I think that happens this year
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 04:13 pm
There's at least a chance this season's record is better than last. Even if not, there's plenty of reason for optimism, including #7, 9, 10, 11, 16,18, 20, 21, 23, 24, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 36, 37, 38, 39, 44, 49, 50, 53, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 63, 69, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, and 99 finishing up at 6'5 338#
Can't fit all that talent onto a final roster! The biggest problem comes on 8/29
fthisJack
August 11, 2023 at 08:34 am
It's hard to say what the "rock bottom" is for this team. It would have been helpful if the Diva didn't keep playing with that broken thumb and then took a big crap against the Lions with a playoff spot on the line. Love would have benefitted from that valuable experience and could have given us a glimpse of what we had with him last year.
MLF should have benched him. No guts, no glory.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 03:18 pm
Agreed that AR12 should have been benched to heal. Even if still available during winnable games. Also, his ribs were a MUCH bigger factor than mentioned! Ever not been able to sleep for weeks? Mental quickness is the first thing to go and that showed. As did his broken thumb.
Anyway, we're here now ...
joshgosser
August 11, 2023 at 12:27 am
I know it's CheeseheadTV, so basic fact checking is probably asking for too much, but Deguara caught a touchdown in a game in which Love did not throw a single pass. So I'm thinking both his career TD receptions were not from Love.
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 01:32 am
You are correct.
1st TD was from Rodgers vs the Vikings.... Rodgers was on the move and threw across his body beating Harrison Smith, who was in great coverage, with a dime....Vintage Rodgers
2nd TD was from Love vs the 2-13-1 Lions in a meaningless last game of the regular season. nothing fancy about the throw just a simple screen pass but Deguara broke a tackle before finishing off the 62 yard catch and run for a TD.
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 04:25 am
The fact that I got a downvote for describing Deguara's 2 TD's is pretty fucking hilarious...
Coldworld
August 11, 2023 at 07:49 am
Maybe it’s the inability to simply state a truth without them attempting to weight it. Perhaps also the omission of the commonly accepted view that Rodgers was averse to the elements of an offense that justify the incorporation of the H back time generally.
I’ve largely stayed out of this discussion because it’s starting to remind me a lot of Acme. A series of polemical statements by people with an agenda based on entrenched positions, a and no interest in discussion or nuance typically. Often just posting to hear their view ad nauseam.
I get the optimism, it’s that time of year. I’m not personally as sanguine as many know. Gute isn’t my main issue, but Gute did not in my view steer us here. Murphy hired LaFleur and led the last few years’ handling of Rodgers. Lots of questions. Rodgers did not win a Super Bowl or get there with rosters I believe were good enough.
That wasn’t all him. How much was will probably be a lot clearer come the New Year, as will our view of LaFleur as an offensive mind and manager of coaches, as much as we will know if Love is going to be good and what Rodgers currently is.
I will say, I like the potential of this roster, but it’s as yet unrealized mostly. How that is mounded and harnessed now is not on Gute but LaFleur.
We are about to start learning real answers to these questions. That makes the certainty and entrenched backwards looking focus you exhibit seem ill timed and, the air of knowing it all even while missing the accurate bigger point particularly tedious. Not least because it seems to invite others to join in.
Yes, not all you by any means, but your own trumpet blowing sealed the deal. Go back to Acme or find it. You will like it. Few listen there but they know they are so much wiser that they do not need to, even on unknowable things.
Tedious
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 03:07 am
1st time poster. Again. Knows all about CHTV.
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 04:19 am
Well first time poster or not he caught the author making a mistake with his facts... Fair game to call it out. I mean it took me all of 1 whole minute to fact check it...Why shouldn't we hold CHTV to accountable for getting facts wrong??
Tater
August 11, 2023 at 09:09 am
Not to pile-on, but he also forgot to mention Quay Walker when discussing the 2022 draft. That is a big omission.
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 11:33 am
You're a clueless TROLL just like Yogidiot.
JosephR
August 11, 2023 at 11:21 am
I appreciate the oversight and made the necessary correction.
At CheeseheadTV we do our best to put out high-quality content, but as a reminder, the overwhelming majority of the staff do this for a FRACTION of what writers do at the major outlets(Bleacher, SB Nation, CBS, ESPN, PFF, etc). We balance a very tight writing schedule that mimics the major networks with full-time careers and family obligations. Personally, most of my writing is done either during a 45-minute lunch break or between the hours of 10 pm and 3 am. Sometimes mistakes/errors happen, and I/we do our best to make sure we correct them as soon as possible, but in the sports writing world, the freshest takes on the most up-to-date happenings is a tough boss to work for.
I hope you'll give us the same courtesies that you give "the pros" who also sometimes have to go back and make corrections to their work.
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 11:35 am
^^^^
THIS.
I'd just ignore the trolls, JosephR. Know that you & your work here is appreciated. These idiots could care less who they take down. Pay them ZERO mind.
You know what, Joseph? I thought it was a very timely piece that you wrote. Tonight being our very 1st test of the new era our 2023 Packers have entered into.
Thank you for your great work here at CHTV, Joseph!
LGF GPG
LambeauPlain
August 11, 2023 at 11:54 am
Keep on writing young man, keep on writing!
Thegreatreynoldo
August 11, 2023 at 01:02 pm
Say what? You get a fraction! I get $0. As we all (should) know, zero cannot be written as a fraction. I therefore do NOT get even a fraction of what Bleacher, SI, JSO, ESPN, and SB Nation (not that SB's writers seem to be setting themselves up for early retirement) earn.
CheesedDeadHead
August 11, 2023 at 01:13 pm
Don't worry TGR you can make it up in volume...
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 04:18 pm
Lots of zeros on a paycheck is a GOOD thing ...
Leatherhead
August 15, 2023 at 07:03 pm
I would pay for a newsletter with your insights. Put me on the mailing list.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 04:17 pm
JosephR,
you're doing a great job here and the staff writers are an amazing bunch. A couple noobs who don't understand that articles primarily spark interesting conversations?
Meh. Don't let them ruffle your feathers. We'll learn 'em :)
packerfanroy
August 11, 2023 at 10:59 pm
Joseph I totally understand that CHTV is a different type of digital media outlet and that there are additional constraints that come with that territory.
Pointing out or correcting a factual mistake your article made was not and never will be an attempt by me to attack you personally or CHTV as a whole.
Posting the correct info in the chat board was mostly the result of me being bored and not meant as a way to disparage you or CHTV in a professional way... in fact I'm pretty sure that I'm not qualified to attack you or CHTV about professional journalism LOL
Thanks for taking the time to write the article, respond and make the correction. I look forward to many more articles from you, even if I might not agree with all the opinions in them.
BuckyBadger
August 11, 2023 at 07:16 am
All this good feeling talk goes right out the window when the team starts losing. Check back midseason when they are 2-7 and lets see how happy everyone is.
I am willing to weather a bad year or even two but I seriously doubt the fan base is. I think 5 wins is about right for this team, might squeeze 1 or 2 more with the easy schedule but this team isn't good.
You can praise Gute but he has yet to give us a draft class you hang your hat on. Sure he got Alexander and Gary (still say Brian Burns was the better option) but he has a lot of misses and none of the draft classes as a whole are ones that you build a championship run around. Outside of the 1st round he has some real bad picks that wash out of the league almost as soon as they entered. His misses are more than what most good GMs do.
Then you look at this transition and it was basically a disaster. Either you go with Rodgers or you go with the young guy and Gute tried to do both. Now the team is cap strapped throwing away a season in which they have a QB on a cheap rookie deal. Should have traded Rodgers 1 year or even 2 years ago and got a lot more for him and the team would have been in a better place. Instead he put the team in a bad cap spot to start Love's career basically not giving Rodgers the weapons he needed (Love could have been Tee Higgins) and hamstringing the start of Love's career because of all the dead cap.
He hasn't been great. He took a roster and made some tweaks to get it back to the playoffs but he has to prove he can build a roster from the bottom up. All this good will people are talking about will be a fart in the wind if the team is getting whipped by the Bears and Falcons the 1st two weeks. That is a real possibility that many Packers fans like this writer have never endured.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 11, 2023 at 09:40 am
Show us where Gute hurt you.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 04:24 pm
BB,
you're prognosticating a lot of unknowns. My crystal ball is broken but I'll wildly guess that anywhere from 6 wins (tying AR12's first year as a starter) and 11 wins (unbridled optimism) is possible, and enjoyable. Next season our cap situation is wonky and by 2025 we might be a contender and if not Gutey looks like a failure.
Until then? Enjoy the ride 🍻
Leatherhead
August 17, 2023 at 06:57 pm
I'm going to start with that 2-7 midseason prediction (yes, its the halfway point). Projecting two wins in our first 9 games means that not only do we lose all of our road games.....Chicago, Atlanta, LV, Denver, but we also do no better than 2-2 at home, against New Orleans, Lions (on a short week), Rams, Vikings before falling to Pittsburgh to go to 2-7. I would take that bet. I think we'll be 4-0 at home and 2-2 on the road when we go to Pittsburgh.
Then about praising Gute's Acumen in the draft....He has inarguably added some good players to the Packers via the draft. Our entire starting line is via Gute, excepting Bakhtiari, who Gute signed to a big contract extension. Our entire WR/TE is here via Gute. Gute resigned Jones. Gute drafted Dillon.
Most impressively, he's getting extra premium picks in every draft. His first year he got a 2019 first round, which ended up being our starting safety for 5 years. He got a first and a second for Adams, and a (probable) first and a second for Rodgers. It is no small accomplishment to get these extra picks, and we should enjoy it.
The transition was hardly a disaster. That's just not right at all. We traded Rodgers, who we didn't need or want anymore, and got Luke Musgrave and a number 1 . Rodgers is happy, Love is happy, Gutekunst is happy, I'm happy.....why aren't you happy? While he was juggling Rodgers and Love, didn't Rodgers win 2 MVPs while Love developed?
If we had traded Rodgers 2 years earlier, as you suggest, we would have been trading away the MVP. That's probably not the smartest move. Also, 2 years earlier, Love wasn't ready, and now he is, and that's why the Packers aren't going to have a down year....they've improved on offense (IMO) and have the division's best defense by a wide margin.
And do you want to talk about FAs? Douglas and Campbell? The Smiths? Amos? He's brought several FAs here who've been good players for us.
You're just wrong, amigo. Sorry to have to be the one who tells you. The Organization is good. The Board and Executive Board are good. Murphy is good. Ball, Gutekunst, and LaFleur are good. The scouts and personnel people are good. These people know what they're doing, and the result is on the scoreboard, where we've won more games under Gute/LaFleur than any other team over the same time frame.
We're not going to start the season like we've started the last several, struggling to score. We're going to play well and score 30 and we're going to beat the Bears.
ReaganRulz
August 11, 2023 at 07:19 am
Dang Joseph…you really fired up the troops (no pun) with your article!! It sure feels like a lot of pent up anxiety because of a few important unknowns tonight and this year!! It’s almost feels like a blind date :)…
…For me, I kinda like how this year feels which leads back to the article about Gutey. No GM is perfect and they are all looking to be the smartest in the room. But Gutey has shown that he is not afraid to take chances and roll the dice regardless of personalities and what others think.
Time will certainly tell for Gutey, but I like his bold decisions and trying to cause disruption for the betterment of the long term GBP’s!!
BuckyBadger
August 11, 2023 at 07:28 am
I think he showed a lack of willing to take a chance. He should have gone all in with the Love pick or gone all in with the HOF in house, he tried to do both.
Coldworld
August 11, 2023 at 09:55 am
I have a suspicion he might have if he were really calling the shots. He’s not the final arbiter of strategy as TT was. Whether that would have led to better outcomes, who knows.
egbertsouse
August 11, 2023 at 07:48 am
Time for a reality check:
Gute’s GM grade-- C.
Packers’ 2023 record—6-10
Love’s QB ranking—24th
Rodger’s’ Jets season— shit show
Untylu1968
August 11, 2023 at 08:47 am
I'll go with a solid B, 10-7, a 15 ranking, and the J-E-T-S sucking ass! Even with diehard "Packers fans" hoping for the worst, just to say I told you so, we make the playoffs.
Coldworld
August 11, 2023 at 09:57 am
Until I know what LaFleur proves to be, anything is possible. I do think that positivity will increase this year as to the roster. Whether that’s matched as to coaches, well we will see.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 11, 2023 at 10:03 am
Time for your reality check: the season hasnt happened yet which makes your comment 100% meaningless.
LambeauPlain
August 11, 2023 at 11:14 am
Another reality check...what game will the Packers forfeit to finish 6-10?
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 04:26 pm
egb, this is not reality.
Even if your guesses prove to be right, you're not stating anything real with this comment.
GaryC
August 11, 2023 at 09:35 am
Good read that Joseph. Totally agree re the “All quiet on the Northern Front”. More than needed and timely. I’m excited to see how these kids progress. Let’s face it - while the season record may be a bit under last seasons - the performances can’t be any worse than last seasons tepid, dull and downright unimaginative efforts.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 04:30 pm
"It can always get worse." - Ramsey Bolton
I'll say it again, if every player gives 100% effort on every play, in every game, all season long? That alone would be a huge improvement over recent years, and could set the tone for the next decade or more. And if the team does that no way do they not win a few. Maybe even a lot?
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 11, 2023 at 09:44 am
Good grief. Were now at a point where you cant say anything positive or be excited about this team without being met with a chorus of Rodgers cultists just waiting to tear people down. Your douchebag hero is gone and hes never coming back. Time to grow up and accept it. This board is for Packer fans. Go join Rodgers' book club and leave us alone.
CheesedDeadHead
August 11, 2023 at 10:09 am
All the happy thoughts are interrupting their grieving for the loss of their "Dear Leader".
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 11, 2023 at 10:42 am
Misery loves company. Apparently they havent read "Atlas Shrugged" enough times.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 04:33 pm
🎶 Gonna Be A Douche Bag Hero 🎶
Foreigner, right?
Thegreatreynoldo
August 11, 2023 at 10:01 am
I am not as optimistic as many on this site. I like much of the talent, but some of it probably needs a year and there are some holes.
The optimism I do have is simply the schedule. GB plays six 2022 playoff teams: KC, MN, NYG, JAX, TB, and LAC. So, KC is the only team I have labeled a difficult game. Every other game is winnable. I think MN regressed. The Giants were 9-7-1 and allowed more points than they scored. JAX went 9-8. TB went 8-9, were heavily outscored and won two of their games in OT. The Chargers, however were 10-7. That's a pretty good team that should be improved with the return of Joey Bosa (5 games last year) and the drafting of Quinton Johnston to help a receiving corps that is getting old and expensive. LAC didn't lose anyone of note in FA. The Steelers were 9-8 and generally are a tough out.
And they play several bad teams. Chicago x 2. Raiders (6-11) didn't get better swapping Derek Carr out for Garopollo. Atlanta might be better with Ridder but they are still not a good team. Rams probably aren't very good. Ditto for Denver unless Payton knows how to make Russell Wilson great again. Saints, Detroit, Giants, TB, Carolina (how good is Bryce Young? I rather like some of their recent picks and FA moves), MN and Pittsburgh are mediocre teams that a mediocre team should beat half the time.
The Packers will miss Lazard, maybe Reed and Marcedes Lewis, but the roster surrounding the QB should be better in 2023 than it was in 2022. The defense is thin and has holes. The DL, top CBs, and Campbell need to stay healthy on defense and Love, Watson, Bakh, Jenkins, and Jones on offense.
greengold
August 11, 2023 at 11:05 am
TGR! This is funny... Imagine if they keep WR/TE Dre Miller... Stranger things have happened, but he's got that big... is the endearing term LaFleur recently used to describe Malik Heath as, a "goon?" One of those big bodied downfield blockers, like the Allen Lazard you speak of?
I could easily see him being a 7th WR should they decide to keep that many, and he balls out to a level of worthy of a roster spot. Not saying it's going to happen, but, he doesn't look out of place. Miller is 6-2 224. Giants really liked him, and he wound up an injury settlement after breaking his arm last season. At Maine Miller had 1848 yds on 104 receptions, 17.8 ypc and 14 TD.
Totally agree on schedule, which is a big reason why I feel this 2023 team can be successful. Vegas projects us to face the 3rd easiest schedule, and project us to meet up with just 5 winning teams in 2023.
I love the competition preseason football brings. Hoping for the best.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 04:42 pm
TGR,
that's exactly what I consider cautious optimism. Every one of those unproven players might wind up as superstars or at least staples in this league. Of course some won't pan out.
By next draft we should know, and Gutey should know even better. Hopefully that puts him in a position to only need a few picks to fill weak spots, and he can trade up to the top of the class for them. Veteran FAs are again out of reach for our budget.
That means a solid roster for next season and time to develop players as well as answer all questions in the rest of the staff for a great 2025. That's the optimism I have; anything beyond that is just enthusiasm.
NitschkeFan
August 11, 2023 at 10:32 am
The number of comments sure is high, so I guess we are all getting ready for the season.
Lots of discussion about Gute on this thread and lots of passion expressed on both sides. My 2 cents, he's made some good picks and decisions and certainly several bad picks and contract decisions. That's hardly a controversial statement and can probably be said of most NFL GM's. I think because the Packers were a championship contender for many of the past few years that the passion gets amped up when talking about the GM. I am trying to move on and focus on the 2023 edition of our Packers.
My all too early (and worth the price you are paying to read this) prediction: a 7-10 season. But I hope to see development through the course of the season, with noticeable improvement in the very inexperienced QB, WR, and TE groups. That progress plus a couple of 1st round picks next spring, plus an improved cap situation will hopefully set the team up for a good run from 2024 onward.
GPG!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 04:48 pm
NF,
is our cap situation significantly better next year? I think we're still in deep doodoo. Even 2025 isn't clear, but by then it's improved. I just hope the new hire to manage the salary cap doesn't get "creative" and again mortgages our future ...
LambeauPlain
August 11, 2023 at 11:41 am
Rodgers first football game as the team starter was in an August 2008 preseason game vs...Cincy! Another major similarity with Love. The list is long.
The major key to success for this season is the coaching staff, in my opinion. I feel optimistic about the talent. Coaching? Borderline pessimist.
I do not see evidence MLF is strong, visionary, assertive leader. I think he has a creative mind on offense and maybe he will finally get commitment and buy in from his QB. Will he also manage the rest of the team? Doubt it.
In a year with young O and a new starting QB, this would be the year for the Defense to carry the team with its EIGHT #1 draft picks. What NFL team has as many #1's on its D? Barry needs to produce his first successful season as a DC. Can he do it? Maybe. Will he do it? Also doubt it.
STs may have finally been fixed after Novak, Slowik, Zook, Menninga, Drayton futility by hiring Bicassia, who still has work to do...but at least he knows how to do it.
One thing for me is certain...this will be an exciting year!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 04:50 pm
LP,
you are echoing my sober thoughts.
I vow not to have many more of those starting soon!
🍻