Cory's Corner: Aaron Rodgers will need defense to win out
Now everyone waits for the puff of white smoke from 1265 Lombardi Ave. Aaron Rodgers had the now-famous bone scan on Monday after two plates and 13 screws were placed on his broken right collarbone on Oct. 19.
All you want is a chance in this week-to-week crucible called the NFL.
Thanks to an ugly 27-21 overtime win over an uglier Browns team, the Packers still have a playoff heartbeat.
Green Bay escaped thanks in large part to its currently starting quarterback Brett Hundley. He played very well by engineering a drive to tie the game up in regulation in which he ran for two first downs. He also led the game-winning drive in overtime that saw him go 3-for-3.
Now everyone waits for the puff of white smoke from 1265 Lombardi Ave. Aaron Rodgers had the now-famous bone scan on Monday after two plates and 13 screws were placed on his broken right collarbone on Oct. 19.
“Dr. McKenzie is reviewing it,” said Packers coach Mike McCarthy. There’s a number of medical opinions that will be involved in a decision, so at this time, I do not have a clean decision for you or an update. That's where it stands.”
That’s all fine and dandy, but are the Packers even good enough on defense to matter? The secondary is being held together with duct tape, the pass rush hasn’t always been there and the unit allowed 6.1 yards per play to the hapless Browns.
The Packers won back-to-back overtime games for the first time in franchise history. That’s a big deal considering this franchise is in its 98th season.
There are only three games left and the Packers can surprisingly still win the division. According to The New York Times the Packers have a 7 percent chance of winning the NFC North if they win out and a 93 percent chance of making the playoffs.
The outside factor in all of this is Carson Wentz. He was in line to be an MVP finalist by leading the Eagles to a huge lead in the NFC East. With Wentz suffering a season-ending ACL tear, the NFC playoff race is fully wide open. The teams to keep an eye on are the Panthers, Falcons and Saints because each team has a quarterback that has been to the Super Bowl before.
Speaking of the Panthers, they are anticipating Rodgers to come back this week.
“For weeks now he’s been projected to come back for our game,” said Panthers defensive end Wes Horton. “So let him come back. Let him play against us. We’ll be ready for him. This defense as a whole, we’re ready for whatever challenge is ahead of us. It starts with (defensive coordinator Steve) Wilks setting the tone.”
The last time Rodgers was in Charlotte, I was in attendance to witness Rodgers see ghosts on the final drive, which later caused him to throw a Microsoft Surface.
The Packers are fully capable of beating a Panthers team without a bona fide No. 1 wideout. But in order to make up for a secondary that will be without another cornerback for the second straight week, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix has to play with a vengeance and become an active player on defense. His passivity this season has been surprising.
Rodgers can play out of his mind by throwing for 350 yards and three scores, but it won’t matter if the Packers still lose by seven because the defense cannot tackle a pocket-escaping Cam Newton.
This season has been good for one thing: it has allowed everyone to see the Packers’ talent gap and how Rodgers has covered those blemishes.
If he’s healthy, let him play, just know that this defense is much worse off than last year’s version.
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Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn
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Comments (90)
NickPerry
December 12, 2017 at 06:32 am
“For weeks now he’s been projected to come back for our game,” said Panthers defensive end Wes Horton. “So let him come back. Let him play against us. We’ll be ready for him."
The Panthers have been instructed (Like they needed instructions) to hit, knockdown, or land on top of Rodgers every chance they have. They'll take any shot they can legal or not to inflict pain on Rodgers. After the Panthers the Vikings and Lions will be asked to do the same thing. This is what scares me more than anything.
"This season has been good for one thing: it has allowed everyone to see the Packers’ talent gap and how Rodgers has covered those blemishes."
Not everybody Cory. Some are still under the impression Ted has done a magnificent job and "In Ted We Trust" still applies.
I'm no Doctor and won't pretend to know a thing about how long it takes to completely heal but I've read and heard it would take 6 months to fully heal. If this is true obviously we're about 4 months short.
Winning 3 straight games with this Defense is asking a lot. Asking Rodgers to outscore Carolina, Minnesota, and Detroit is asking a lot since he's been out 8 weeks and that's JUST to get into the playoffs.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 07:14 am
"Winning 3 straight games with this Defense is asking a lot. Asking Rodgers to outscore Carolina, Minnesota, and Detroit is asking a lot since he's been out 8 weeks and that's JUST to get into the playoffs."
Just asking 'What IF' in this hypothetical situation....
But what if Rodgers does come back and the Packers go on to beat Carolina, Minnesota and Detroit and get into the playoffs? How are you going to feel about the team and playoff chances then?
TarynsEyes
December 12, 2017 at 09:46 am
Why do you insist on asking how some will feel in that hypothetical?
You're like the person in a horror movie that ' won't open the door' for fear of knowing what's waiting, so you run away and then feel safe from the danger but you're not because what happens will happen for good or bad. Some of us fear not the door and take it on head first...we know the dangers that will/may befall the Packers every week and face them openly. We simply to choose not to run from what will likely catch us anyway. And when a win comes no matter how brutal.we rejoice as happily as those who cringe from fear of it and act as if they knew the outcome all along.
With or without Rodgers the playoff chances for this team are anemic and the probability that another early exit is highly probable because of the ' defense '. Take that as success if want but it isn't or is there a number of years that making the playoffs constitutes a SB win in a proxy manner?
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 10:08 am
Why can't I ask? What is wrong with that question?
Most people are doom and gloom. (Not saying Nick is, just in general)
Nick said 'Asking Rodgers to outscore Carolina, Minnesota, and Detroit is asking a lot since he's been out 8 weeks and that's JUST to get into the playoffs.' So my question to him and anyone really, is if they do win those games, how will they feel about going into the playoffs after beating 3 playoff caliber teams.
What is wrong with that question?
I saw a stat on twitter yesterday that if the Packers win out they have a 93% chance of making the playoffs. How is that an anemic chance? When the Browns were beating the Packers in the 4th quarter they had a 4% chance of winning that game. Guess what, they won...
After the season the team has had, with the injuries they have had, if they make the playoffs, why wouldn't that be considered a successful year?
And no, I'm not that person in the horror movies. And no offense but after that sentence I read nothing else that you wrote...
billybobton
December 12, 2017 at 01:29 pm
the same way you feel when a bad new age reporter says BH was the key to the great victory........over Cleveland
did you honestly entertain the view that Cleveland could beat green bay?
do you understand that the reason Cleveland lost is because Cleveland got to pick?
BH and green bay were after thoughts on determining the game, the game was determined by cleveland coaches going soft coverages to protect a lead instead continuing to challenge, confuse and befuddle MM and BH.
Trust your eyes, that is what happened it is what everyone watching saw
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 02:19 pm
It's no less a win. You've got to beat the crappy teams, too, and there are no style points in the standings.
Finwiz
December 12, 2017 at 02:57 pm
I disagree, it wasn't about Cleveland changing coverages as much as McCarthy actually making a change at halftime to go to a no huddle, quick, short -pass offense, to take the 4-5 yards per pass, with occasional run. Cleveland was daring Hundley to pass the entire game, but they also didn't play press coverage the entire game. I give credit where it's due, if MM hadn't made the shift at half, they would not have won that game. My only question was, 'what took him so long'? That should have been the game plan from the beginning.
Tundraboy
December 12, 2017 at 11:19 pm
That's the problem. What took him so long? He can not coach a full 4 Quarters of a game.
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 08:07 am
"The Panthers have been instructed (Like they needed instructions) to hit, knockdown, or land on top of Rodgers every chance they have. "
I fully expect this to be true. I also fully expect that the Packers will be doing everything in their power to get throws off quickly this (and the following) week. I also also expect that ARod is being given lessons on how to fall down without putting stress on his upper torso.
Some say that this will not allow ARod to be ARod because he's not going to be able to extend plays. I disagree: he should be able to move around and do many of the same things he normally does, it's just that if he senses pressure (which he is really good at) he needs to unload the ball. This will be a lot like the ARod of the injured calf of a few years ago, except this ARod will be able to move around...he just can't take any punishment.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 06:58 am
IF Rodgers comes back, there wouldn't be a bigger lift to a team in a long time. You could see how engaged he was against the Browns.
While teams/players are going to try and get hits on Rodgers, you know that McCarthy and Rodgers will know this and will be prepared for this. Rodgers will know to get rid of the ball faster and not to take unnecessary hits.
IF Rodgers comes back, I like this team as a whole lot better now then I did when Rodgers left. The OL is healthy, and with Rodgers to guide them, their blocking assignments should be better. They now have 2 RB's that can go for over a 100 yards. That is not a small thing. Just the fact that Rodgers can turn and hand the ball off and let his RB's gain 4,6,8+ yards each time is a huge thing for him. He no longer has to do it himself. And with Rodgers back teams won't be able to load the box and dare the QB to beat them. That should give Williams and Jones a lot more room to run.
When Rodgers has a running game to rely on, he is even more dangerous. The offense is even more dangerous. And that does a ton to help the defense. With Rodgers the offense can help the defense by staying on the field. With Hundley they have way to many 3 and outs. That puts even more pressure on the defense. The defense should get more rest and be more fresh.
No this defense can't line up and shut teams down over and over. But it can create 2-3 turnovers a game, which with Rodgers that can be 1-2 more scores a game.
Also with Rodgers the offense scores more often, which means that it puts more pressure on offenses and makes them more one dimensional. If the Packers get up 2-3 scores on a team, that means the opposing offenses have to play catch up.
Rodgers does make that big of a difference. If he plays we will see it.
fastmoving
December 12, 2017 at 07:06 am
and it should help everyone out that we have some kind of running game now.........
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 07:50 am
And not just one RB, 2 legit RB's.
On a side note. McCarthy brought up needing to get Devante Mays going as well. Sounds like he is really looking good in practice. To bad he fumbled his first 2 carries, otherwise they may have 3 RB's they could be using.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 12, 2017 at 07:31 am
"And with Rodgers back teams won't be able to load the box and dare the QB to beat them. That should give Williams and Jones a lot more room to run."
You can say that again.
"And with Rodgers back teams won't be able to load the box and dare the QB to beat them. That should give Williams and Jones a lot more room to run."
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 07:33 am
lol, nicely done TGR.
lou
December 13, 2017 at 11:14 am
Agree, the running game is finally something the opponents have to factor in against the Packers and this has to help Rodgers. If Bulaga were healthy and they had a tight end that could stretch the field the fans arguing that Rodgers can't outscore all of the next opponents would have little leverage.
Finwiz
December 12, 2017 at 09:55 am
O-line not really healthy when you consider Spriggs vs. Bulaga, correct?
That's about as un-healthy as one group can get, not to mention the bumps and bruises from 13 games. I didn't read beyond that, but let's not be presumptuous and assume everything is fine with the Packer offense and the protection packages. The worst team in the league had quite a few plays where they overwhelmed the O-line and were on Hundley before he had a chance to think.
Oh...and I didn't really see any RB's consistently getting 4,6,8 yards against the worst team in the league either. Do they have an acceptable running game, sure, I'll buy that. Is it a championship caliber running game on par with Edgar Bennett, Dorsey Levens and William Henderson, I don't think so, but time will tell.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 09:50 am
The last time Rodgers played a full game he had Lane Taylor as his LT, and McCray as his LG against the Cowboys.
Spriggs has played ok since filling in for Bulaga. The OL is in far better shape now then the beginning of the year. Bakhtiari is playing at a pro bowl level. Taylor has been really good, and Linsley has been as well.
They just went up against the #1 ranked defense in yards per carry. And they loaded up to stop the run. While the run game wasn't great, they have been in previous games. Also the Browns are winless, but they are not a cake walk team either.
Also if Rodgers would come back, he greatly improves the offense. Teams will have to respect his ability to throw it deep. Something no one has had to do since Hundley took over.
With Rodgers as the QB. Williams and Jones are a pair that can lead them to the Super Bowl.
fastmoving
December 12, 2017 at 07:04 am
I thought the game is always about hiting the QB and inflict pain???
the bone has not to heal completly, that wont happen before they put the screws and the plate out.
But its fixed now and more stable than his own collarbone. the bones start to grow together, but without the metall it would be to much of a risk.
but on the other side, thats the benefit if you opt for an operation. Its solid but you have to have a second op to get them out again. thats the downside.
but after all that doesnt mean Dr. McKenzie will let him play...........
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 07:08 am
Rodgers has stated that he will not have a 2nd surgery to remove the plate and screws. That those will always be there.
fastmoving
December 12, 2017 at 07:17 am
you already posted that, right. But Im not sure. Its a small bone and 13 screws is a lot. never heard that they let so much stuff in there.
maybe they not made off metall and they dissolve themself in the body, but I doubt it.
But if its the case its even better...........
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 07:48 am
Yeah, I tried finding where he said that, but can't find it. He said that they would not remove them though.
Finwiz
December 12, 2017 at 09:39 am
This will never be verified, but I would highly doubt they leave a plate and screws in a collar bone once it heals. They DO leave rods in leg bones even after healing because there's no need to take them out. Titanium is very compatible with bone tissue and the body accepts it well. I suppose plates and screws could be the same, but they aren't inside the bone, they would be attached outside the bone. Not sure if that makes a difference, but the invasive nature of a surgical procedure to remove a rod from inside a leg would seem to make it more unlikely to have that removed than a plate from outside a collar bone. I know someone close to me that had a compound leg fracture and they put a titanium rod inside when the bone was set. It was left up to her whether she had it removed or not. It's still there 20 years later.
cuervo
December 12, 2017 at 07:35 am
"But its fixed now and more stable than his own collarbone"
No it is not and it won't be for another 4 months. The plate and screws helps it heal faster, not strengthen it.
fastmoving
December 12, 2017 at 07:55 am
how can screws help to heal faster????
...they fix it at the right place. If you dont insert them there is a chance the bone moves and not growing togetherlike they should or not at all................
you dont work much with your hands, right?
cuervo
December 12, 2017 at 08:03 am
And you don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you? My spouse is a doctor and I've had a broken bone that required something similar. The plate and screws allow the bone to heal to faster by holding it in a fixed position rather than hoping it stays there. This is very common in orthopedic surgery.
You must spend time doing something else with you hands...huh?
fastmoving
December 12, 2017 at 08:11 am
.......thats what I said: It fixed them so it can grow togther.
till than it is fix, because of the screws. its solid and if something happend it would never break at that spot. so right now, its better than his own bone.
it just holds them in place...nothing else.............
rdent
December 12, 2017 at 08:24 am
You can split hairs all you want, it would still be unwise to put AR in and expect him to accomplish mission impossible.
HankScorpio
December 12, 2017 at 08:16 am
"My spouse is a doctor and I've had a broken bone that required something similar. "
That doesn't mean you, your wife or anyone else knows better than the Drs that have examined and treated Rodgers.
All this talk about his medical condition is a lot of noise that means nothing. He'll be cleared or he won't. They people deciding have a track record of caution and a far better understanding of the issues involved than anyone else.
cuervo
December 12, 2017 at 08:40 am
No kidding....I was simply explaining that the addition of the screws and plate don't strengthen the the bone, they help it heal.
Thanks for the clarification Mr. Obvious.
HankScorpio
December 12, 2017 at 09:05 am
It sure does seem obvious, doesn't it?
HankScorpio
December 12, 2017 at 07:04 am
If Rodgers is cleared, he'll play. I have no idea if he will be cleared but his last broken collarbone was 7 weeks and we're at 7 weeks now. So I think there is a chance.
Either way, I doubt he'll be ready to win a shootout after watching the last 7 games from the sidelines. And the state of the defense suggests they will have to win in a shootout. So my expectations are not exactly sky high.
But Rodgers is a magician. So I don't discount the possibility we'll see some magic.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 07:11 am
*we are at 8 weeks from when he hurt his shoulder. Will be 9 weeks between games.
If Rodgers comes back, I'd expect a Cowboys type of game against Carolina.
Bearmeat
December 12, 2017 at 07:29 am
THIS. A sharp Aaron Rodgers absolutely is the only hope this team has to make the dance, and it's certainly the only hope this team has to advance.
Our pass defense is injured. And it was bad when it was healthy. Our pass rush is below average when healthy, and laughable when it's not - which is unfortunately normally more the modus operandi.
ILB, DT, DE and S (even with HHCD's poor play) has been average to above average, and those are young units. They'll only improve.
But the team has fatal flaws at CB and OLB. That's what is going to wreck the year. Again.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 08:01 am
If Rodgers can't come back, we will not make it to the playoffs. Its as simple as that. Rodgers gives us that chance.
Our pass defense is injured, but we got some good news with House. He actually could come back in 1-2 weeks. Not a season ending injury.
Hopefully a week off helps Perry. Mathews showed he can still make plays. They need another rusher. I'd like to see Biegel get some chances. Also, i'd like to see more blitzes.
Martinez has been a stud. Ryan looked horrible against the Browns. But can be a good run stopper.
Well to be honest the biggest thing that wrecks this team is the injury to Rodgers. If Rodgers plays they are probably ending the season somewhere between 12-4 to 14-2.
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 08:20 am
"Our pass defense is injured, but we got some good news with House. "
A year ago, they were limping along in the secondary with one healthy CB (Gunter) who was disadvantaged by his lack of raw speed, and a bunch of injured CBs trying to get by from one game to the next. This year, they've got four healthy CBs (Rollins, Hawkins--who didn't play down the stretch last year--Pipkins and Brown) and a chance to get House back. Pipkins and Brown don't play much, but Whitehead, Jones, and Burnett are healthy and playing slot roles to bolster the secondary. Are those guys better than Hyde playing a CB/S role? I guess we'll find out.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 08:44 am
You're absolutely right. And honestly Randall has been playing great. *Randall is the healthy CB not Rollins...
Also, i will add that our DL is better, and Martinez is a huge upgrade over last years ILB's.
Burnett is as good if not better then Hyde.
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 09:48 am
Thanks for catching my goof. I, for the life of me, don't know why I would've listed Rollins there...
I don't think the OL is as good as last year's, but there's a more consistent running game to help take pressure off #12. No Cook to throw to. The stretch-run schedule is harder this year.
Finwiz
December 12, 2017 at 09:43 am
Difference is the severity of the break, and the fact it's his throwing shoulder. There's more torque on the bone with a throwing motion, it would seem to me. From the beginning the consensus seemed to be it would be a longer healing process than the 1st injury.
This wait for the news on medical clearance is either the Packers playing games with the Panthers, or I suspect there isn't agreement between the doctors on whether he should be cleared. If it's the later, it doesn't bode well for playing in Carolina. I would think they will error on the side of caution.
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 09:50 am
I've been saying that I don't think he's going to be cleared this week, but in all honesty why would they do anything to give Carolina any concrete info any sooner than they need to? Monday vs. Wednesday (when they practice), they're going to err on the side of Wednesday every time.
Cartwright
December 12, 2017 at 02:27 pm
I read somewhere that his collar bone got crushed, there's a medical term for it, they used it in the article. It wasn't a clean break, that's why a plate and 13 screws were put in. I still say play Rodgers. We still have a chance. The season isn't the same without him. Let him decide, besides with all that hardware he must be feeling practically bionic. Go pack Go.
Houndog
December 12, 2017 at 07:35 am
RC,
"But what if Rodgers does come back and the Packers go on to beat Carolina, Minnesota and Detroit and get into the playoffs? How are you going to feel about the team and playoff chances then?"
If that happens I'll feel the same then as I do now: defense wins championships and the Packers do not fall into that category, you need at least a reasonable defense to win the big games.
Add in McPuffy's track record in big games and..............
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 08:08 am
*Defense or Star QB's win championships...
Yes you need a good defense. But you also have to have a good QB or good QB play. The better the QB the weaker the defense can be. The weaker the QB the better the defense has to be.
The Broncos won the Super Bowl in spite of their QB.
The Seahawks won their's mostly on the defense, but the conditions of the game also favored them.
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 08:11 am
This team looks, on paper, a lot like last year's team that "ran the table". Beat up secondary (that, frankly, might be a little better than last year's) and a sporadic pass rush. Difference is that this team is going to have a #12 that's going to be limited (which sucks) and a run game (which helps). Consistency in the OL is going to be a big issue, and we didn't have to worry about that a year ago.
Since'61
December 12, 2017 at 08:09 am
If Rodgers is cleared he will play. MM may try to hold off the media as long as possible in an attempt to impact Carolina's game planning.
Assuming AR returns we're in the same shape as last season. We'll be OK on offense while our defense is very shreddable. There is no help coming for the CB corps since the injured are already on IR.
The Packers are already in a playoff scenario and the next 3 games are against 3 legit playoff contenders. If the Packers were to make the playoffs, probably as a #5 or more likely #6 seed they would play 5 of their next 6 games on the road before making it to the SB. Yikes!!! That is a lot to ask of any team, even a team with a good defense. Maybe even too much for a healthy AR to overcome, unless AR can convert the Packers into the hot team going into the playoffs as he did in 2010.
It's one day at a time this week until we learn ARs status. Thanks, Since '61
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 08:15 am
"If the Packers were to make the playoffs, probably as a #5 or more likely #6 seed they would play 5 of their next 6 games on the road before making it to the SB. "
Some say it helps a team to have to play this way on a weekly basis prior to the playoffs. That they're ready to play in a tournament-style format once the playoffs start. Sometimes we see this in college hoops: that team that needs to win its conference tournament to get into the NCAAs, then goes on a run. I think it mentally drains a team and eventually leads to collapse games like what we saw against Atlanta last year: yes, they were physically beat up and disadvantaged, but they looked worn out, too.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 08:34 am
Completely agree. The team has 3 OT wins this year. They have 3 games that they came back to win down by 14 points (Bengals, Cowboys, Browns).
They hung with one of the best teams in the league (Steelers), also hung with the Saints. Better QB play and they win those games.
This is a completely different team with Rodgers and a healthy offense. And the energy this team will have with the Return of Rodgers (if he does return) can't be overlooked.
Since'61
December 12, 2017 at 08:59 am
dobber - I agree. This Packers team doesn't have the players on defense and even on the OL to survive the type of run they would need to make.
In spite of all that I'm sure that the league is hoping(pushing/forcing) Rodgers to return in an effort to prop up their falling ratings. Rodgers makes the games watchable even if he loses. That's all the league is concerned about. The league has gone from playing to win to playing to entertain the fans. Think of what Rodger's return means for the Fantasy Football leagues alone, especially if the Packers reach the playoffs.
For us Rodgers return gives us a sliver of hope to rescue a disappointing season, but for the league Rodgers return means ratings and of course $$$.
With the falling ratings, kneeling controversy, no Luck, no Zeke, no JJ Watt, NY market out of it, now Carson Wentz gone and numerous other stars on IR the league desperately needs a hero. There is more than healing driving Rodger's return. Thanks, Since '61
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 09:53 am
Like I said before: ARod returning and leading this team to the playoffs by beating other playoff and playoff-caliber teams starts to set the stage for an epic story.
...and every week he plays and survives, that collarbone gets stronger.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 13, 2017 at 02:54 am
I am sure the league hopes that AR returns from his injury. I do not think the league is forcing AR's return. I do not think the league is pushing AR to return. Do you think Goodell is calling AR, Dr. McKenzie, GB's FO/coaches, or anyone at all, and threatening them?
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 08:25 am
"The Packers are already in a playoff scenario and the next 3 games are against 3 legit playoff contenders."
Basically from my point above in asking Nick the question, if they win the next 3 games (against playoff level teams), how do you feel about them in the playoffs?
There will be tons of excitement with this team if they make the playoffs in that scenario.
All I want is a chance with Rodgers.
pacman
December 12, 2017 at 08:18 am
They probably knew yesterday within seconds after looking at the scan. So either Packers are playing with Carolina's heads or he's not coming back.
Everyone seems a bit euphoric that Hundley won the last 2 games. Yes, he didn't melt down but he played so poorly that the entire receiving team will have to retrain on running real routes.
I don't know how they calculate a 93% chance of making the playoffs. Just looking at the scenario videos, it does not seem anywhere near that. But the main question for me is - what are the odds of making it to the SB?
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 08:23 am
"They probably knew yesterday within seconds after looking at the scan. So either Packers are playing with Carolina's heads or he's not coming back."
I didn't think we'd really find out either way until Wednesday when we saw who was practicing with the #1s at QB. Why would the Packers or any other NFL team give any opponent more information and more time to scheme than they need to? MM and TT are awfully good at talking but saying nothing.
I still think he doesn't play this week, but I didn't expect to know until they take the field tomorrow.
justjoe
December 12, 2017 at 11:00 am
"Yes, he didn't melt down but he played so poorly that the entire receiving team will have to retrain on running real routes."
Hundley was 35-46 265yds 3 tds 0 int. That is playing poorly in your book?
WOW!
al bundy
December 12, 2017 at 08:55 am
My take, Rogers isnt cleared to play, unless mental mike thinks he is more clever then carolina who are expecting rogers. Doctor looks at xray and knows in five nano seconds whether it is healed enough to play and reports to mikey. That was yesterday so mike knows ne way or the other.
If he plays and gets hurt its on mike. If he doesnt and they lose mike can write off the seasonto injuries, no blaming him or capers.
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 09:58 am
Somebody with medical training will have to correct me, but it's more than an x-ray where it's broken or not. They're looking at the extent of bone mending and density at the site of the break, are they not?
"If he plays and gets hurt its on mike. If he doesnt and they lose mike can write off the seasonto injuries, no blaming him or capers."
The player also has something to say about it, too, but I think we all know he wants to play. If he gets hurt, so long as the bone doesn't shatter, he'll have his 6 months to fully heal before 2018 camp. From an MM perspective, I'm guessing that's not terribly different from shelving him for the season, is it? And if the doctors clear ARod (medically there's no reason why he couldn't play) and he wants to play, why would it be on MM?
No blaming? That ship sailed a long time ago...
holmesmd
December 13, 2017 at 03:32 am
The test he underwent is a bone scan Dobber. It obviously looked good enough to a multitude of radiologists & Ortho Surgeons to give #12 a green light! Go Pack!
rdent
December 12, 2017 at 09:01 am
Cory's article was pointing out that Aaron Rodgers will need help from the Defense. Here is an example of the help the Defense has lent to the team since 2011.
2011 Giants. 37- 20
2012 49er's. 45- 31
2013 49er's. 23-20
2014 Seahawks. 28- 22 OT ( ST gaffe also)
2015 Arizona. 26-20 OT
2016 Atlanta. 44- 21
Except for 2014 when AR had an injured calf he has been relatively healthy, ask yourself, what makes you think this year will be any different?
pacman
December 12, 2017 at 09:03 am
GREAT summary. Somebody tape this to DC's door. And TT/MM's too. And the BOD's. Stop there as the rest of the world already knows.
HankScorpio
December 12, 2017 at 09:09 am
That playoff record sure looks to me like Rodgers didn't hold up his end in the losses all that much. A lot of 20-22 point offensive efforts in there. Half of them had the defense holding the other team to 23 or less in regulation.
I bet that bother Rodgers one hell of lot more than the defensive efforts in those games. I doubt he's pointing fingers as much as the people here are.
cuervo
December 12, 2017 at 09:12 am
Nice summary.....And who's responsibility is it for correcting that? TT, no, Mark Murphy, no, the Head Coach....yep. That my friends is incompetence.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 09:32 am
2011 - That game the whole team came out flat. We all know that Philbin losing his son weighed heavily on the team in that game. That year the Packers offense was unstoppable. And they only scored 20 points. They had 4 turnovers in that game too.
2012 - the Packers worst playoff loss in a while.
2013 - Micah Hyde has an interception go off his hands. They would have won had it not been for that.
2014 - 2 special teams gaffe's honestly cost them the game. The fake FG, and the onside kick. The defense dominated the game up until that point.
2015 - Packers had no WR's. Going up against the number 1 offense in total yards and number 2 in scoring in the league that year and they gave up 26 points in OT. I don't think that is that bad.
2016 - Blame the defense, but the truth is the game would have played out differently had the Packers had a healthy offense. They simply couldn't keep up with Atlanta. I'm not saying they would have won, but the game would have been different.
Has the defense been great? No, but like Hank said the offense didn't live up to itself during those games. The offense is as much to blame for those losses as the defense.
Finwiz
December 12, 2017 at 10:10 am
Except for 2014, I entirely blame the defense in ALL those cases you cited.
And in 2014 when Seattle had to score, the D couldn't stop them and 52 had to stand on the sidelines as they tied the game, because he was tired.
The defense has been this teams Achilles heal since 1997.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 09:53 am
At that point of the game Seattle had all the momentum. It should have never gotten to that point. The onside kick gave them all the momentum they needed.
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 10:01 am
Again: if you go to Webster's dictionary and look up "improbable" they refer to that game. Too many failings to mention, and if you ask 8 different people, you might get 8 different points at which that game really turned.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 10:09 am
exactly!
cuervo
December 12, 2017 at 09:51 am
"Has the defense been great? No, but like Hank said the offense didn't live up to itself during those games. The offense is as much to blame for those losses as the defense."
But I thought we have offensive an Guru as the head coach? So it's the defenses fault and the offense fault, and the special teams fault..... what is the common denominator here?
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 09:54 am
The common denominator... It takes a complete team's effort...
cuervo
December 12, 2017 at 10:16 am
And the leader of the Team that continually falls short is??????
Finwiz
December 12, 2017 at 10:29 am
The Claymaker or Daniels?
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 10:30 am
There are many leaders. Mark Murphy, Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy, Aaron Rodgers...
The truth is, its not just on one person or one unit or one thing that has created these losses. There are moments in the games that if one thing changes the games turn out differently. Can't place blame on any one person for that.
cuervo
December 12, 2017 at 11:08 am
I disagree...someone has to be held accountable. If the personnel is good enough to get them to that point, then something else must get them past it. If the company you work for has sales below expectations, they fire the the person in charge of sales. No different here....you're making excuses and not holding anyone accountable. That works in Washington DC, and evidently here in GB.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 11:28 am
So basically what you're saying is unless they make the super bowl each and every year they should fire everyone?
Sorry, but I'm not making excuses. I'm being honest. Everyone wants to blame one particular person or fire someone. Its not that easy. Winning Super Bowls is not easy. They should have been there in 2014. They blew it in so many ways.
From Belichek's led Super Bowl in 2005, they didn't win another until 2015. By that thought, shouldn't the Patriots have fired Belichek somewhere along those lines?
And if Belichek is considered the best coach in possible ever, to go with Brady who some consider the best QB ever, why haven't they won more? Shouldn't they be in it each and every year?
cuervo
December 12, 2017 at 12:24 pm
"So basically what you're saying is unless they make the super bowl each and every year they should fire everyone?"
No, I'm not saying that...MM has been here what, 10-11 years? When you have 7 years after the height of his and the Team's success filled with the same issues over and over and over, and he's done nothing to address any of them it's time for a change. Obviously you feel MM has a right to hold this job for eternity.
MM is not a terrible coach by any means.... I'm just saying that a change is needed if things are to improve. It's fine if you don't agree, but you'll never convince me otherwise.
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 12:43 pm
...unless they win another SB?
Thegreatreynoldo
December 13, 2017 at 02:04 am
"Can't place blame on any one person for that."
Make up your mind, RC. Pretty sure you've advocated for firing Capers, so to some extent you can pin blame on one person.
Hank's point is a good one: the offensive production in several of those playoff games was subpar. Of course, I expect us to score less than what we averaged in the regular season because on average we will be playing teams with better defenses. Similarly, I expect to give up more points than we averaged during the regular season because on average we will be facing teams with better than average offenses.
RCPackerFan
December 13, 2017 at 06:56 am
No you can't place blame on anyone person. But it doesn't mean that change isn't a good thing and that they need it. Capers hasn't been given an all pro roster to work with, but he has IMO enough talent to have a better defense then they have.
Plus offenses seem to know exactly what Capers is going to call.
Its time for him to go!
rdent
December 12, 2017 at 11:55 am
Hank and RC, to expect AR and the Offense to play lights out in every playoff game is incomprehensible. The teams that are in the playoffs are there for a reason,they are good, but when AR and the offense needed the D to step up it failed. Even if AR comes back and they through some miracle make the playoffs, again, what makes anyone think the result would be different? If you want to go there than lets just say that the TEAM hasn't been talented enough to get to another SB.
HankScorpio
December 12, 2017 at 06:44 pm
Rodgers has a career QB rating of 104.1 All of the defeats you listed had him below that mark. Only once was he within 10. 3 times he was under 80. Spin that anyway you want. But when it was time for RODGERS to step up, he did not.
To be sure, he stepped up plenty to get them to that spot. And I don't blame him for showing he is mortal on occasion. But that doesn't change the facts.
Which brings us nicely to what I think can be different about 2017. Maybe this year will be the year Rodgers steps up 4 straight games in January. He's put up plenty of streaks that were longer. And maybe that will be enough.
croatpackfan
December 12, 2017 at 04:18 pm
Oh, how many experts here...
To remind all of you:
1. "Randall and Rollins are bust. Release them not later than at the end of the season!"
2. "Davante "stone hands" is bust. Cut him sooner, rather than later...
3. Kenny Clark is invisible...
4. Dean Lowry has too short arms, he is JAG...
5. Lenzy Pipkins is next Sam Shields...
6. Marvin Evans will be pro-bowler...
etc...
Why should I believe any of you now, when you show your expertise many times in the past?
Dzehren
December 12, 2017 at 10:03 am
Speaking of HA HA- yesterday, The Packers worked out five players- S Donte Carey (Grand Valley St.) S Malik Golden (Penn St) S Stefan McClure (Cal) S Zack Richardson (Henderson St) LB Nigel Harris (South Florida)- source ESPN
Finwiz
December 12, 2017 at 10:14 am
Boy that's pretty telling, and an INDICTMENT of both Burnett and Ha-Ha's level of play, I would think. Burnett makes a couple of tackles each game, but for the most part is the most invisible player on this defense. Don't shoot the messenger, but ask yourself why, at this point in the season, would they be working out all those safeties? Whiteheads not very good though, I'll tell you that. Number 35 is ALWAYS trailing a receiver in coverage and has no instincts for that. Not sure how he is in the run game, but he's relatively invisible too, unless he's trailing a TE over the middle.
SpudRapids
December 12, 2017 at 11:23 am
Ask yourself the last time a TE gashed the Packers? That's Burnett, he's playing strong safety and taking the TE out of the game thus being "invisible." HaHa is the one that is lacking... he's is playing way to conservative and his drops are 25 yards deep. I understand he doesn't want to give the big play over the top but I think he's playing timid because he doesn't want to get hurt during a contract year. He'd be breaking on balls and laying the wood if it were otherwise.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2017 at 11:30 am
"HaHa is the one that is lacking... he's is playing way to conservative and his drops are 25 yards deep."
He is just as Josh Jones does a lot. That is because that is the defense they are running and what they are having them do. That blame goes on Capers.
Finwiz
December 12, 2017 at 11:45 am
That may be true, (if I accept your premise) but just pray they don't see Olsen back from injury this week or your opinion might change rather quickly. I seem to recall Olsen had a field day last time we played them. If he was so good at coverage you'd see a few INT's on slow TE's he should have a physical advantage on, but no. I'd say he's adequate at best, only because they ask him to do a lot, but he doesn't excel. I'm not as big a fan of Burnett as most people. I don't expect he will be resigned for big $$'s, but we will see soon enough.
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 10:16 am
Could be as much because they're asking their S to play in the slot the last couple weeks as anything else, and they need to protect their depth. Look at the snap counts from Sunday. Only 3 CBs played against Cleveland and that was with House leaving due to injury and Marwin Evans not playing a single defensive snap. Cleveland is a team that's going to run a lot, so I think you'd see more base and that had something to do with it, but they don't have much faith in Pipkins or Brown.
Finwiz
December 12, 2017 at 10:28 am
Well if they're looking for slot cover guys, then why are they working out safeties and not corner's? Seems a logical question. Corners are inherently better cover players than safeties. There aren't any Ronnie Lott's or Cam Chancellor's hanging around on the waiver wire right now.
Working out safeties implies they need depth at that position, which means run support, zone pass defense, or covering TE's. I can only conclude they aren't very happy with what they have at S. They aren't going to bring in a safety and train him for their goofy nitro LB roll at this late stage in the season. Not to mention the fact Evans has all but disappeared from the rotation.
dobber
December 12, 2017 at 11:05 am
Currently, they're asking Burnett and Whitehead to play in the slot and in nickel and dime situations, and more than just a little bit based on the distribution of snaps. They must feel better about them doing that than they do about asking one of their current CBs to do it. Could also be that they feel the talent on the street at S relative to that at CB (in comparison to who they currently have) is better.
I agree: working out that many S's implies that depth at S is, in some way, a concern for management right now. If they're asking S's to play those roles more, they likely need to have more available.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 13, 2017 at 02:23 am
Excellent point: the level of talent on the street at safety is probably higher than at CB. Wonder about other teams' PS candidates at CB.
Per the snap counts, we had only one true CB on the field for at least a dozen snaps. Really unusual. Looks like Burnett took those boundary CB snaps and we didn't get killed with him there. FO has us doing well against TEs (11th ranking). I would suggest that Burnett has something to do with that TE ranking as well.
I might note that FO by DVOA has GB 16th for overall defense despite massive talent and/or production deficits at CB and OLB.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef
lou
December 13, 2017 at 12:50 pm
For what it is worth, here is what ACMEPACKINGCO presented today;
Situationally, Capers’ unit has been an unmitigated disaster and statistically speaking, there’s a clear case that it’s the worst situational defense in football.
Here’s the list of third-down defenses at the bottom of the league. Green Bay is in some pretty sorry company.
28. Oakland Raiders (43.8%)
29. Dallas Cowboys (43.9%)
30. Green Bay Packers (44.4%)
31. Indianapolis Colts (44.6%)
32. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (48.3%)
The Buccaneers and Raiders are the worst defenses in football by DVOA, and the Colts — who the Packers only barely edge out for second-worst in the league -- are a 3-10 disaster zone.
Green Bay is down there with the worst, most undisciplined defenses in the league.
Life isn’t any better in the red zone, where the Packers have been mucking it up in the cellar all season. Here’s the bottom of the league in points per red zone trip:
28. Washington Pro Team
29. Arizona Cardinals
30. Miami Dolphins
31. Cleveland Browns
32. Green Bay Packers
There’s only one common name on those two lists.
In other words, not only are the Packers the worst situational defense in the league, they’re easily the worst.
Ferrari Driver
December 12, 2017 at 06:30 pm
I'm excited to see the best quarterback in history take the field even if the Packers chances of post season play are not assured.
No one can play the position like the Packers #12 and we are lucky to be his fans and he is lucky to have fans like us.