Who Will Be the Odd Man out in Packers' Cornerback Battle?
By ChrisWanless
When NFL owners voted to eliminate the 75-man cut down back in May, coaches and bottom-of-the-roster players everywhere rejoiced. With no mandatory cuts until after the conclusion of week four of the preseason, coaches are now able to gather as much film as possible on every single player in camp, and the aforementioned players on the proverbial bubble get one more shot at proving their worth in a game setting. While some would argue that teams most likely have the bulk of their roster filled out by the time the fourth preseason game rolls around, the policy change could also produce even more intense roster battles at crowded positions right up until decision time.
For the Packers, cornerback is one such position.
Sure, there are clear frontrunners in every group on the roster, and the cornerback room is no different. Davon House, who was signed in free agency two years after the Packers let him walk and has dealt with a hamstring issue for close to three weeks, is all but guaranteed a roster spot. So, too, is top pick Kevin King. Despite suffering a concussion during week one of the preseason, former first-round pick Damarious Randall will certainly make the team, and fellow third-year man Quinten Rollins seems well on his way to the 53 as well.
That makes four cornerbacks who, barring something disastrous, will be taking the field for the Packers when the regular season kicks off. Since the team currently has 11 men at the position on the roster, that also leaves seven to fight for spots. Three, in particular, stand out to me.
The most experienced of the remaining field is LaDarius Gunter, who filled in admirably last season but faded down the stretch. Gunter has struggled thus far in camp and has even been moved to the slot, which, by most accounts, has proven somewhat successful. While he has the length the Packers desire in their corners, Gunter lacks the top end speed you’d like to see if you’re trusting someone to play one-on-one in coverage. With the abundance of quick-twitch slot receivers across the league, it’s worth wondering whether it would only be a matter of time until Gunter is exposed in a slot role.
In terms of making a big impression so far this preseason, second-year man Josh Hawkins is your leader. Hawkins will likely make the 53-man roster based on his experience playing special teams as a rookie, but he is also making a serious case for consideration among the top four corners on the roster. While some bubble players work in the shadows, quietly impressing coaches and making a name for themselves, Hawkins has made quite a loud statement, even earning a starting nod in Green Bay’s second preseason game.
Not surprisingly, the Packers may have also found something in undrafted free agent Lenzy Pipkins, a rookie out of Oklahoma State. Because of the injuries to House and Randall, Pipkins has seen extended action so far this preseason and has succeeded in making himself stand out, at least enough to justify the thought of him stealing a roster spot. If that continues, or if he can make himself useful on special teams, Pipkins could have a very real chance of making the team.
It is highly unlikely the Packers will elect to keep seven cornerbacks on the roster, which means someone here is going to be the odd man out. In the end, Gunter may need to hope his experience tips the scales in his favor, unless he can prove trustworthy in the slot on a consistent basis. As much as Gunter was asked to contribute a year ago, his spot is nowhere near secure, and the younger guys in the room are undoubtedly aware of that, and this year they’re getting more opportunities than ever before to show why they deserve a seat at the table.
Comments (40)
dobber
August 25, 2017 at 11:20 am
I lean toward Gunter being that odd-man out. Someone out there will sign him, though.
Finwiz
August 25, 2017 at 02:09 pm
The word I'm hearing is, Gunters days are numbered because after moving him to the slot, eventually it will be clear a 4.7 / 40 CB won't be able to cover a shifty slot receiver.
TKWorldWide
August 25, 2017 at 02:31 pm
G Man certainly wasn't great last year, but due to injuries etc he sure played a lot. If GB has 6 corners better than him he'll be gone.
Mojo
August 25, 2017 at 11:50 am
Of those you mentioned, I lean towards Pipkins mostly because they probably feel they would have a good chance to get him on the PS. I'd be willing to pay him more than the PS minimum to incentify him to stay.
TheVOR
August 25, 2017 at 11:48 am
That's a good point, and I think it has to be a consideration. It's like, if two guys are a coin toss, and you want to develop both, then the smart GM says which guy is likely to clear waivers and make it back to my practice squad. I believe that's becoming a more common place practice than people realize.
flackcatcher
August 25, 2017 at 12:21 pm
Good point, especially with the change to one mass cut to 53. Other NFL teams (like the cowboys) will be the first to scan the packers cut list for pro ready players, especially OL and DB. Cowboys are a mess this year. (Yes I know it Jerry's team, he always over pays and under drafts.)
TKWorldWide
August 25, 2017 at 02:35 pm
I agree. I think that's a common place practice squad practice.
PS How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
RobinsonDavis
August 25, 2017 at 12:39 pm
If it was to happen today, I would agree with Mojo on this one. Injuries always play a large part in tweeking a final roster though. So let's see where we are after exhibtion-game 4. Donatello Brown has found some love from those that are watching practices/games as well, but I think Mojo has it right.
TKWorldWide
August 25, 2017 at 02:32 pm
Plus he's got a kickass name.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 25, 2017 at 06:17 pm
Which one: Mojo, Donatello or Lenzy (I like the name Pipkens too)?
TKWorldWide
August 25, 2017 at 08:07 pm
1. Lenzy Pipkens
2. Donatello Brown
3. Elvis Peacock
4. That guy that played for the Lions: last name Colon, first name...Harry?
dobber
August 26, 2017 at 08:41 am
Harry Colon...best football name of the last 20-something years.
RobinsonDavis
August 26, 2017 at 12:14 pm
:-) Still partial to Johnny Blood, Mike Stonebreaker, Fair Hooker, & Buzz Nutter!
RobinsonDavis
August 26, 2017 at 12:22 pm
Don't forget the Packers had Ringo & Starr on the same team, every snap.
Since'61
August 25, 2017 at 03:11 pm
I think Gunther will be and should be the odd man out. Both Hawkins and Pipkins have more longer term upside. Gunther's experience from last season doesn't matter much when NFL receivers are streaking by him as they make their receptions and cruise unimpeded into the end zone. However, Gunther can help the Packers even after he is chucked. We can pay the Vikings or Lions to sign him and start against us twice a year. Just picture Gunther allegedly covering Jordy, or Adams or Cobb or anyone. Automatic TD. Then Rodgers can throw 4 or 5 TDs or more against him each game and we can be sure of at least 2 divisional wins. Maybe we can work a scheme to rotate Gunther to the Lions and Vikings and pick up 4 divisional wins. As for the Bears, well they're the Bears so we would sweep our division if we can rotate Gunther between the Vikings and Lions. We could even lend some of our $14 million in cap space to them to make it happen. We'd probably only need about $100 per game so why not? Then we could arrange to have Gunther released and picked up by our playoff opponents and SB here we come. I wonder if TT will see it this way? Hope springs eternal. Thanks, Since '61
Spock
August 26, 2017 at 09:40 am
'Since 61. I know you don't like Gunter and I agree he's unlikely to make the 53 this year, but this is pretty harsh. The dude's given his all for the good of the team last year. It's not his fault he is (NFL) slow. Yikes, what did Gunter ever do to you?
Bure9620
August 25, 2017 at 03:18 pm
Personally not a fan of "sneaking" through to the practice squad. If they can contribute, and Pipkins can they need to be on the roster. Best 53 period. He is better and more athletic than Gunter. No one sneaks through, the other 31 teams have film also. I predict Pipkins makes the 53, but if not, he will not clear waivers.
Turophile
August 26, 2017 at 04:31 am
Bure9620. Best 53 period. So simple to say, so difficult in practice. You have to have some depth at all positions, so you cannot go too crazy in messing with position group numbers. The Packers are (for example) unlikely to go into the season with only two RBs on the final 53, as they did in 2016. They have learned their lesson the hard way.
You could make an argument that the Packers have 10 receivers with enough talent to be either on the 53 or the PS. Suppose (like most teams) they keep 6 (for example Nelson/Adams/Cobb/Allison/Janis/Davis). That leaves McCaffrey, Yancy, Dupre and Clark (a high upside developmental guy) on the outside looking in. You cannot put all 4 WRs on the PS, you need more balance there, in case a position group gets a rash of injuries as happened to the CBs in 2016.
That gives you the choice of keeping 8 receivers, and leaving 2 to to the PS (they won't do that). They might keep 7 WRs as they did last year, but there are offensive guys at other positions on offense, that deserve at least a PS spot. The 3rd QB, 4th (and maybe even a 5th) RB, one FB, at least one O lineman (probably Amichia). It would be hard for a TE to make the PS this year.
Add that lot up for the PS and you get, for example 1xQB, 2-3xWRs, 1-2xRBs, 1xFB, 1-2xOLs . That means even if you take the minimums at every position listed above, you still have a 6-4 imbalance in off vs def players on the PS, and you shouldn't have the balance worse than 6-4, you might really need a guy on the PS later in the season and you don't know beforehand where the injuries will fall.
So, what does it all mean ? Put simply, there are other factors in play when it comes to cutdown time. One guy who may not be one of the 53 best, but does a job no-one else is as good at. For example, Tripp may not be one of the best 53, but he is a good special teamer, on all four ST units, so he is a tough cut.
To balance the team (especially this year) position groups with real depth might lose talented guys, because coaches need coverage everywhere. Therefore "best 53, period" is naive, many things play into who is kept and who is cut.
One example I forsee as likely to happen, is Kerridge going to the PS. He has probably played well enough to earn a place on the 53 (in my opinion), but not so many teams use a fullback, so Kerridge is quite likely to both make it to, and stay on, the Packers PS and not get poached by another team. That situation may not be as likely for some of the WRs that the Packers cut.
Bure9620
August 25, 2017 at 11:27 pm
Yes I agree with all of this, you may have to sacrifice some position groups. But we will undoubtedly be keeping 6 corners. Pipkins should be one and not Gunter
Bure9620
August 25, 2017 at 11:27 pm
Yes I agree with all of this, you may have to sacrifice some position groups. But we will undoubtedly be keeping 6 corners. Pipkins should be one and not Gunter
Spock
August 26, 2017 at 09:31 am
Turophile, A well thought out and excellently explained post. Nicely done.
4thand1
August 25, 2017 at 04:46 pm
All these cb's will have plenty of snaps to prove there worth over the next two weeks. Let the cream rise to the top and let the sludge go down the drain. Best 53, period.
Packer_Fan
August 25, 2017 at 05:29 pm
Keep Hawkins and Pipkens. Cut Gunter. No need to keep a CB that can be exposed in the slot. Actually it would be a disaster. The Pack should consider picking up a veteran to bolster the position.
KamThomps
August 26, 2017 at 11:53 am
I vote we go get Darrelle Revis -- now. Like today, please. Despite what happened in the Wild Card game last year, I am also not averse to having Leon Hall show up, either. Experience trumps a lot of unknowns. Just saying.
Finwiz
August 26, 2017 at 01:18 pm
Did you see Revis's stats last year? He's lost it.
TKWorldWide
August 27, 2017 at 01:20 pm
Did you say "just saying"??
Uh oh.
Cartwright
August 25, 2017 at 05:58 pm
Let the cream rise to the top, good thing we get to have more time to evaluate more players. Maybe we land a gem. Rootin' for that Hawkins kid.
LayingTheLawe
August 25, 2017 at 06:11 pm
It certainly says something about what happened last season if the guy who was (forced by injury I recognize) the number 1 cornerback and asked to guard in successive playoff weeks Odell, Dez and Julio is now in a struggle to make the team. It can hardly be worse than last year but hopefully the corners will be a much improved squad over last season.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 25, 2017 at 06:22 pm
IIRC, Denver's slot receivers stunk in 2016. The rookie, Carlos Henderson, might be their slot guy.
dobber
August 26, 2017 at 08:48 am
You look at these outside corners who aren't terribly fast (understatement of the day for Gunter) and many are extremely good at using the boundary to their advantage.
TKWorldWide
August 26, 2017 at 08:55 am
In addition, they often have great change of direction (as evidenced by the 3 cone drill).
dobber
August 26, 2017 at 09:02 am
The bottom line is if there's someone better, the better player is likely to play.
We look at Gunter and we act as if the Packers planned to play Gunter as heavily as they did last season. He was essentially all they had...and he wasn't a disgrace, but he got exposed at times.
...it's not like they were trotting Ahmad Carroll out there.
Finwiz
August 26, 2017 at 09:55 am
Ahmad Carroll was better than Gunter because he was a 4.4 and could run.
When Gunter makes a mistake, and it's inevitable he does/will, he gets burned badly because he can't close the gap on a receiver at 4.7.
Gunter will be gone next weekend.
dobber
August 26, 2017 at 02:15 pm
I don't think we're remembering the same Ahmad Carroll. He could run, but he couldn't cover. Period...as in "so bad the makeup speed didn't matter much". I still can see him chasing some 3rd-rate WR to the corner waving his arms like a 16-year-old girl at a New Direction concert because he'd gotten posterized...again.
Just because a guy can run doesn't mean he can cover. And just because a guy doesn't run well doesn't mean he can't.
Both guys are likely to get beaten badly at some point.
Finwiz
August 26, 2017 at 02:34 pm
OK - you're probably right Dobber - but I'd still take Ahmad Carroll - that should tell you how little I think of Gunter. He might make it in Canada or the Arena football league, but not in the NFL. Gone a week from today - just watch.
Finwiz
August 26, 2017 at 09:59 am
"The way you use a slow cb is by having them disrupt a route at the line of scrimmage. Technique needs to be flawless and the cb has to be able to mirror the route of the wr."
No kidding Jonathan - do ya think? Gunter has very good technique, they see it, and so do I, but he can't close on a receiver when the balls in the air and he has separation, or playing catch- up after the receiver does grab it.
No, not all CB's run a 4.4, but most do. 4.7 is just too much for a guy to makeup with perfect technique because it only takes you so far. Advantage always goes to the receiver because he knows where he's going, so receiver will get separation most of the time. (except Randall Cobb who got old/slow)
dobber
August 26, 2017 at 02:18 pm
Well stated.
It's not as if the Packers went into 2016 saying, "Gunter is our best CB"...and if they keep him for 2017, he's going to be buried on the depth chart like last season. How many teams really would feel good about having to play their #4 CB and a hybrid CB/S as starters?
KamThomps
August 26, 2017 at 11:59 am
I, for one, appreciated Mr. Spader's comment, as I do all those that educate in addition to expressing an opinion. I have watched - and loved - the game for years but am only recently making strides in understanding all the nuances. I keep my Football for Dummies close, and the interweb closer, and I am grateful for the enlightenment I receive from other fans. My thanks to all who make the time for it.
Bure9620
August 25, 2017 at 11:32 pm
Hawkins is a steal with tremendous upside, he has speed and nice balls skills, pretty shocked he wasn't drafted. I also really like Pipkins. He's aggressive at the line, uses his hand well, good speed too. With all my gripes about TT, he does do a great job finding diamonds on the rough in college free agents.
fthisJack
August 26, 2017 at 08:16 am
i say keep the best 53. if your 7th CB is better with more upside than the 3rd MLB, keep the CB and chuck the MLB. you have Mathews and Jones and Burnett that can move up and play ILB. if Joe Thomas can't cover , why keep him on the roster? i like the guy except he can't cover. not too thrilled with our other ILB either for that matter. ILB need to go the way of the dinosaur and bring in more speed guys that can hit.